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Old 10-15-2005, 12:42 AM
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About to spray base coat, newbie question...

Hey after months and months of work I am going to spray my base coat tomorrow I am using Dupont nason bc/cc system. This is how I did it,
-bare metal
-Bondo
-Glazing putty
-2 coats Nason Ful-poxy epoxy primer
-3 Coats nason fulthane sentry high build primer
-A little more glazing putty

So now I have a surface ready for paint that is mostly 2k primer with spots of glazing putty. The question is can I just shoot base over all this? I did use the evercoat glaze in a tube (i know its a bad idea but time and money is an issue and the stuff worked nicely) Its very smoothe at 600 grit.

-Do I spray one more coat of epoxy (have plenty left) then shoot my base?
-I also have the nason 1k sealer i could use, then base
-Just base coat over the whole thing as it is.

-seems to me if I spray another coat of epoxy the surface will get rough again with little bumps, I dont wanna have to sand again.

What should I do?
Thanks,
Mark

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Old 10-15-2005, 09:37 AM
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Flipp, Throw that 1k putty as far as you can and remove what you have used so far! I am not a pro but I am sure some of the other guys will speak up about this also and there is just no place for that stuff with modern paint. I just recently had a problem with 1k sealer(Nason sealer with Nason B/C)even though the spec sheet gives it as the preferred choice it lifted and made a real mess. 1k putty WILL shrink later on and ruin your paint I learned this years ago the hard way
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Old 10-15-2005, 12:42 PM
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well I already used it on my bondo before i sprayed my first coat of epoxy so its a little late to get rid of that stuff, but the new stuff i put on i suppose i could sand off...
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Old 10-15-2005, 06:33 PM
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Flipp, You will probably be able to find any 1k putty you leave in a few months, it WILL shrink and show up in your paint so you would be a lot better off to remove it now while you still can since all you will lose is some primer. Also I would not use that 1k sealer even though it says in the spec sheet to do so it caused me some major problems recently that a good 2k sealer or primer would not have caused so I threw away what I had left and I will never use it again! The guy at the paint store told me that the 1k was what you are supposed to use with Nason base and that is what it says in the spec sheet also but since I had that problem some of the guys here and two fellows at a local body shop all told me that stuff is bad news in spite of what the sheet says.
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Old 10-15-2005, 06:56 PM
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I have to agree about the one part putty. That stuff can cause you some real problems down the road. As for the Nason RTS sealer, I have heard people complain about problems with it. I can say that I used it on my son's truck in July 2001, at the advice of the salesman at the Dupont/Nason jobber. We got rid of it in July 2005, and had no problems with the paint. I simply followed the directions. I don't know why others are having problems with it. Maybe I did something wrong.
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Old 10-15-2005, 08:10 PM
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Ok Mark you are at a crossroads here... You will have to make the decision on what to do... How much of the 1kputty did you use?? Over most of your work, a little???... did you use it to cover the whole area?? If there was allot of bodywork and u used it to cover each area completely then I would remove it... Now the next question.. Is this a keeper vehicle, one you are doing to sell, is it your daily driver?? What color are you going to spray the car?? Does it matter much to you when it shrinks back??

If you used a little dab here and there and you cant really afford to sand off your epoxy and 2k and start from there again, you may get by with little ill effect... I used it years ago, I have seen it shrink and I have seen it not be an issue.. depends really... I always put heat lamps on mine though before they ever got primered to get it dry enough to suite me... It was something I used for pin holes mostly.

If you used allot, wait and I would personally use spi primer and go from there... I mean sand it down, fix what ever you need to fix with 2 part glaze ( you can buy this stuff for 15 bucks a tube with hardener), and then cover it in a couple coats of Regular 2 K sold by spi then you can base and clear without the need for any sealer... I would not use the 1k sealer since many are having issue's with that same product... The High Build Barry sells is not really intended for a newbie in my opinion..
1. #6520-1 Regular Build Gray - Gallon
$52.65
2.#6501-4 Regular Build Primer Activator - Quart
$24.61
http://southernpolyurethanes.com/Tec...d%20Primer.htm
Another thought, if the car has set for months already and you just now covered it in 2k and sanded it down you would be in a better standing... If you try and base over the existing 1k putty showing through, you will hate yourself in the morning.. That alone will trash the paint job.


IMO there is absolutely no need in wasting all your time and money now spent if you know it is going to come back and get you... I would rather wait and save my money and be satisfied... Never settle when doing this work as you will regret it after it is all said and done...

Your turn

Matthew
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Old 10-16-2005, 01:02 AM
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Thanks matthew and oldred, I did sand dont a good chunk of the 1k putty seems like I didnt really need it after all. I just sprayed the base, 2 coats letting 1 hour flash between em basically (took 1 hour to paint the car one coat). The color i chose was black. I didnt get a chance to clear coat it tonight and it will have to wait overnight till it can get cleared. I dont think this is a problem. Maybe it is my imagination but it appears that there are patches on the car where it doesnt seem black at all anymore. When the base was wet still it looked absolutly black. Now depending on the light it looks more like a dark brownish color. Is something screwed with my base coat? Or is supposed to look like this till I clear coat it?

Thanks
Mark

Ps:
I was looking at pictures on the internet and it does in fact look like black suede, black in certain light brown in others. here is a good pic of what it sort of looks like:
http://www.toddlerock.com/images/Cha...ck%20Suede.jpg
Is it possible I havnt sprayed enough base? I sprayed two coats like recommended in the tech sheet.

Last edited by flipp121; 10-16-2005 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 10-16-2005, 06:39 AM
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I am not a painter, but you have to understand that some blacks are not really "Black". At different angles and in different light, they will look different colors. It would depend on what "Black" you got. As an example, Hondas have several different colors of Black. It can also depend on the coverage of the product and how many coats you put on. Nason is a lower priced product, and the coverage will not be the same as, say Dupont. Also the base without clear will not have a shine when dry, unless you use SPI, until the clear is applied. The base will look somewhat like suede, but should be relatively smooth. Any texture will show up in the finished product in the right light, and at the right angle.

Hope this helps.

Aaron
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Old 10-16-2005, 06:44 AM
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Flipp, I let the guys at my shop talk me into using Nason(red) because they convinced me it was really good stuff and there was no need to use Dupont Chroma since it was an all-over and no need to match colors but after 2 coats it was apparent that this stuff does not cover worth crap and I would have been much better off to have used the regular Dupont. Before you clear this thing make sure you have enough base on it to cover good.

Nason
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Old 10-16-2005, 10:10 AM
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I am not a body man. I also don't do automatic transmissions. I know what I am good at and not good at. I don't have the skill to do body work or lay down paint.

I have been around this stuff for 4 decades. Here is what I have concluded:

I have good "color-eyes". Most cars are blotchy colored. Even many show cars in magazines have body panels that are 3 different colors. Each panel was painted at a different time with a different primer, and maybe the coats of color were not uniform.

I have seen some really poorly done expensive paint jobs put out by supposedly top shops.

ALL PAINT IS TRANSLUCENT. Whatever color is behind there, affects the final color. Blotchy or mismatched primer color makes the finished color yucky.

Have you ever noticed that the BIG-guys on TV, like Boyd, Troy, etc. all spray the cars solid white before the base coat goes on? Wonder why? A uniform primier color and then a uniform under color eliminates the color variation and white makes every color brighter and turn out like it is suppose to. If you ever saw a shop that does $ 20,000 paint jobs, that is what they do. period.

(someday spray some yellow primer, gray primer, red primer and white// and then spray a color over them, later go out into the sun and look.)

PPG is the only paint really worth the time it takes to spray it.
Sherman Williams is as bad as rattle can.
I have seen tons of Dupont stuff come off in sheets.
3M stuff only.

They have yet to prove to me that ANY base/clear will last out in the weather as good as the old acrylic enamel Ford used in the early 60s.

If you are doing a scuff-and-shoot for the car auction that is one thing. If you are doing a keeper.......

Last edited by xntrik; 10-16-2005 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 10-16-2005, 10:34 AM
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"" I don't have the skill to do body work or lay down paint.""
'EXTRIK quote"

That pretty well explains statements made in the post!

Last edited by BarryK; 10-16-2005 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 10-16-2005, 11:20 AM
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So you guys are saying I didnt get enough coverage then? I will post some pics later tonight...
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Old 10-16-2005, 12:48 PM
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I'd agree with oldred - unless you're 100% sure you've got full, even coverage with the base, don't clear it yet! You'll be opening up the possibility of a whole lot of problems if you clear it, and find you have to re-base and re-clear it. Much better to do it now, whilst it takes little effort, and be certain it's right first time.

Whilst I'm a firm believer in sticking to the tech sheets, I always take comments on coverage with a pinch of salt. Whilst they say 2 coats is enough, it's not always the case. You may not have put the base on quite as wet ('thickly') as they did, and knowing DuPont, they may be quoting for coverage over a uniformly dark substrate.

As for your comment on it looking totally black when it was wet, I have found that some bases can hide well when wet, but as the solvents evaporate, and the film thickness reduces, the underlying colour can 'grin through'.

You're probably outside the overcoat window by now, so personally, I'd give it a light scuff or sand, and put on another good coat of base.
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Old 10-16-2005, 01:03 PM
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id agree 2 coats more than likely doesnt give you proper coverage, i would do at leats 4-5 coats. and most paints dont recommend it sit more than 12 hours without spraying clear over it.
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Old 10-16-2005, 03:22 PM
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Kay I will rebase it, no problem. It will have to sit like this for a few days though till I can get back at it. This isnt a problem as long as I scuff before i base it again right? then I will clear it that same day. Is it safe to leave it like this for now? It inside my heated garage. It does kind of looke like the grey primer is mixing with the black and showing through as a browny color.
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