Acrylic Enamel vs. Base Coat Clear Coat - Page 11 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 12-23-2008, 12:58 PM
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no, if your doing a basecoat clearcoat job you want the base to dry dull. you never put clear over wet basecoat. you will be trapping solvents. it doesn't matter what the base looks like shine wise. the base is just there for color. the clear is what makes it shiny. when you spray the clear and its dry it will have somewhat of a texture to the finish just like a new car does when you roll it off the lot. when you sand and buff you are basically working that clear down perfectly flat then rebuffing it to a shine leaving a finish that is mirror smooth.

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  #152 (permalink)  
Old 12-23-2008, 01:11 PM
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Ok, thanks for the reply. It makes sense now.

Any recommendations on which product to use for the buffing?
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2009, 08:41 AM
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au system vrs bccc

a old school here - k have used everything includeing synthetic enamel and pump gas as the thinner - ya it works - the best IMHO - acrylic urethane / a 50/50 mix final coat then 2 or more clear - gives a DEEP long lasting shine - buffable if wanted - and no soft base underneath as bc /cc has to seperate at a later date ( dont tell me it dosent as 75% of repairs I do are seperated bc/cc )- bc/cc concept is a hipe - a easy expensive way to a job that takes little exp to a short lasting job - short as in 12 yrs maybe -almost ALL outher paint will outlast it , sure they fade etc have seen some over 50 yrs old still going strong - wax it up and ya good -
get a good two part au and a good two part clear - and mix together mid job
and the paint will outlast the object - I speak from exp not hipe - from trains , planes , race junk , classics , garden tools etc
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2009, 02:22 PM
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what a co-inkidink

I had a Job interveiw today @ PPG, I learned alot about waterbourne paints and soon it will all be waterbourne. The auto industry has been using it since 92 and it is easier and more enviromentally safe.
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0...es-NASCAR.html
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2009, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcity6
I had a Job interveiw today @ PPG, I learned alot about waterbourne paints and soon it will all be waterbourne. The auto industry has been using it since 92 and it is easier and more enviromentally safe.
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0...es-NASCAR.html
I haven't shot a water base yet, but my wife's had 2 cars over the last few years that used it, a Mazda 6 and now a new Toyota PRIUS. My impression is the stuff has the lasting ability of chalk. Look at it and it's damaged. I'm way not impressed.

Bogie
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2009, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcity6
I had a Job interveiw today @ PPG, I learned alot about waterbourne paints and soon it will all be waterbourne. The auto industry has been using it since 92 and it is easier and more enviromentally safe.
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0...es-NASCAR.html
yep its all true those cars you see driveing around with the paint literly flying off ? thats the waterborn primer that causes that - I have used it in the past - what a mess - wetsand it and its like putty dont let it dry ANYWHERE - its like latex paint - drys in clumps - as a happy X california painter and mostly retired now those days are over for me --- to get around the water primer thing (if your in a controlled area ) just buy wood refinishing primer walla its acrlic lacquar - never mention the auto industry if your smart - waterbourne is great for houses but never ment for cars now that both the paint and primer both will be what a happy combo the tree huggers will love it , cept if its on their own cars

the furture holds a few outher choices ceramic etc

Last edited by Darkhowl; 01-20-2009 at 05:40 PM.
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 09:39 AM
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Hey Darkhowl, I am interested in your concept. When you say mix 50/50, do u mean actually mix the ready to shoot au with the ready to shoot clear together in the cup, then after drying shoot a couple coats clear? thanks
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 11:51 AM
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my au / clear concept

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod kent
Hey Darkhowl, I am interested in your concept. When you say mix 50/50, do u mean actually mix the ready to shoot au with the ready to shoot clear together in the cup, then after drying shoot a couple coats clear? thanks
aye mix both seperate a bit before hand - at final coat of au mix in cup both au and clear any ratio you desire - i have tryed 25% au 75% clear up to 50/50 i like 50/50 best some mite not like the effect it gives paint a suspension look really wild with metallic - and no dont let dry , go ahead and add at least 2 more coats of clear -( have used up to 4 ) afterwards color sand and buff if desired or leave as is -you need a booth or a very clean area as all this wet paint takes a while to dry even though its all catalised so is dust prone - when done paint looks 3 feet deep and no seperation later on - goof ups are easly repaired - elbows in paint , just as you walk out a bee enters room etc lol been there done that - I use 3 brands of paint - ppg , kirker and some hoc - one of my rides is posted on kirker web site check it out
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 06:59 PM
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Over 28.000 views and 5 years later..

Still using just the DBU, or DBC under DCD35, or ClV at 70 degrees here and they just keep rolling through ..

With the waterborne stuff on the horizon it's important to note the clears are not waterborne (yet) and are still gonna be the critical ingredient weather shooting bc/cc or repairing a single stage..

Hat's off to SPI and PPG for clears that are hanging in there through the test of time..

Glad to see this thread with a favorite pic ..
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2009, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
Over 28.000 views and 5 years later..

Still using just the DBU, or DBC under DCD35, or ClV at 70 degrees here and they just keep rolling through ..

With the waterborne stuff on the horizon it's important to note the clears are not waterborne (yet) and are still gonna be the critical ingredient weather shooting bc/cc or repairing a single stage..

Hat's off to SPI and PPG for clears that are hanging in there through the test of time..

Glad to see this thread with a favorite pic ..
What do you like better for black, single stage, or base coat/ clear coat? I'll be getting my black 89 Vette painted by a shop teacher at a local tech school when it warms up.

And any suggestion on black base that is similar in price to SPI's black gallon base they used to sell?

Though, since I'm gonna be putting the Vette up for sale later, I may just go Nason to keep costs down.
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2009, 07:59 PM
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the note here was sell?

if selling what does it matter ? - i did watch a white vett return to a discount string paint shop 4 times before it was half rite - I say do it like your keeping it forever IMHO black hates bc/cc if its anywhere where theres sun - bc/cc hates heat and black builds heat
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2009, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhowl
if selling what does it matter ? - i did watch a white vett return to a discount string paint shop 4 times before it was half rite - I say do it like your keeping it forever IMHO black hates bc/cc if its anywhere where theres sun - bc/cc hates heat and black builds heat
It matters cause I only want to get it painted once. It needs to look good to sell, but I don't want to be out a ton of $ at the same time. It will be sitting outside.
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2009, 09:55 AM
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whats you shop teacher used to ?

it matters on what hes used to painting with and recommends also - also we keep useing this thread ae vs bccc - when all agree bb/cc best there BUT its NOT better nor even as good as au/cc -- something that needs to be said but dont rember anyone mentioning anywhere on this thread is
the clears for any of the above are AU clears - dosent it stand to reason the paint should be too ?
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 11:01 AM
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PPG acrylic urethane

After reading these posts, I want to do my glass 33 with PPG acrylic urethane + clear. The color will be solid, red. Is anyone familiar with the difference between PPG CLV versus DCC. I can't tell from the tech sheets, but the DCC mentions that you can mix the last coat with clear as an option, where the CLV says to let the Base dry at least an hour then clear. Just wondering what the difference is and which one would be best. thanks
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2009, 01:37 AM
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acrylic vs bc/cc

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70chevy
He said he didnt mind which i choose, but the bc/cc is 500 dollars more. I looked at some of his stuff and it looked good... He said he hasnt seen the acrylic enamel peel and chip like the modern bc/cc does. Plus he said that in his opinion putting clear coat on messes things up....Dont know. But the guys is a 32 year painting veteran. Is this possibly not wanting to upgrade, the thinking of why mess with a good thing....I am just trying to figure out why he thinks that the acrylic enamel is superior. I am going to go talk to my english color store and see what they say! But please keep the comments rolling. I want to learn! Thanks
There is nothing wrong with using an acrylic enamel... as a matter of fact, is has it's own special characteristics and a special patina that cannot be reproduced by a polyurethane. Chemically, an acrylic polymer is safer to use because it does not pose as many environmental and health risks. It also required less personal protection and less complicated respiratory equipment to prevent that wonderful "high" that a polyurathane clearcoat produces after shooting it (mind you I shot some tonight and it does do a number on you!).

On the other hand, nothing beats the richness and depth of a polyurathane BC/CC. Couple it with a 3 system paint (like a candy apple or an effect) and you have depth like there is no tommorow! It is also a finish that is easier to buff when you get a scratch and easier to remove when you either want to repaint or refinish a panel and is more resistant to gasoline/solvents, changes in temperature, and is more flexible for use on plastics. On that flip side, it is not as chip resistant to road hazard, resilient to tree sap, or good with the ole' pollution. After a while, the clear halos and yellows like the rest of the world! The only thing that prolongs getting the yellowing or halo effect is the quality of the clear. Let's face it, polyurathane is a straight out plastic.

Acrylic enamel is an extremely hard paint provided that you follow the directions and use a good wet look DOI hardener. But, it is tough to colorsand, takes longer to buff and polish, and could eventually oxidize. Also, surface impurities make it dimple (aka "fish eye"), wheras polyurathane can care less most of the time (most lifting and peeling occur in the longrun!).

I'm sure your painter is awesome and knows what he is doing. I'm also sure that he prefers the acrylic because it is easier to paint and required less cleanup. The choice is yours!
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