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  #166 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2009, 06:44 AM
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I read some of the replies. I am having my 29 painted. My guy was a body man for 30 years and he now is an adjuster so he visits body shops all day long. He said that they all use bc/cc. Sometimes people are more comfortable not changing. Your guy likes AE, but that is not what seems the best today. Maybe the guy is adding money on because he is not use to doing the bc/cc and it is a lot more work (conceived or not) for him than AE. Sikkens is very good and PPG is very good but are both reality more expensive. I first looked at a PPG paint and the paint and reducer was going to run about $1100. I chose a Martin & Seymour paint that cost around $300. The color is just about the same and was $800 less. In your case you could use that savings to pay for a bc/cc. Good luck

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  #167 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2009, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000jack
I read some of the replies. I am having my 29 painted. My guy was a body man for 30 years and he now is an adjuster so he visits body shops all day long. He said that they all use bc/cc. Sometimes people are more comfortable not changing. Your guy likes AE, but that is not what seems the best today. Maybe the guy is adding money on because he is not use to doing the bc/cc and it is a lot more work (conceived or not) for him than AE. Sikkens is very good and PPG is very good but are both reality more expensive. I first looked at a PPG paint and the paint and reducer was going to run about $1100. I chose a Martin & Seymour paint that cost around $300. The color is just about the same and was $800 less. In your case you could use that savings to pay for a bc/cc. Good luck
Make sure that you shop around, because 1100 dollars for a system (I am assuming a gallon of each product including activator) is a bit pricey. If you are going with a straight factory code, then any shop across the nation could mix it up for you.... just have to make sure they weigh in the pigments precisely. You must be doing a red or blue hue right?
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2009, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detailyguy
Make sure that you shop around, because 1100 dollars for a system (I am assuming a gallon of each product including activator) is a bit pricey. If you are going with a straight factory code, then any shop across the nation could mix it up for you.... just have to make sure they weigh in the pigments precisely. You must be doing a red or blue hue right?
I went right to a body shop/ paint store. I was first interested in 2006 Mopar "Go Daddy Go" like $165 a pint plus the cost of the reducer plus a gallon of $70 something. I needed 3 pints. The next color I looked at was a 3 stage at $235.00 a pint. So we are up to around $870 then the $70 and then some else $80.? something and State tax I think it was $1060. total

Last edited by 2000jack; 05-10-2009 at 06:56 AM.
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2009, 04:30 PM
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I need glasses

I have been reading for days. BC/CC AU AE Rustoleum and coal tar. Wow. One day soon (this year?) I hope to get some kind of paint for my heap. So far I have striopped the hood, deck lid and right side. I can not imagine just sanding and not use stripper. Even stripper takes the 'protective paint' I put on there 10 so years ago, and then gets the factory paint a ripple look but it still has some gray smooth with another black underneath it before metal. That crap is TUFF. I thought to sand it all off but it takes forever with good 60 grtit and what a mess. Sure glad for stripper(s). When I got to metal I put phosphoric on and let it haze and wiped it. I sent SPI an email for some info and prices. Heck, I never intended to go this route, but now I'm a doin it. So looks like lots of guys like bc/cc but having seen the au/cc I think I might like that. No Rusto, no enamel or alkyd please. If any of you had a choice for a one time deal, would you go bc/cc or au/cc? I got a lot of work to do anyway, so when SPI sends their reply I might go ahead and get their stuff. I have a few paint stores around, and painter friends, but this one is on the sly and kind of under wraps. What they don't know won't hurt them. I'm going to try this paint thing no matter without anybody's actual physical help or oversight - just HotRodders help if any. I think there is too much for a newb to grasp in this paint business, but I think if I just pick a type and go with it then that, for me, is where it all begins. should I just start a new thread or pick one similar and hope? Maybe by the weekend I will have the thing strippered all the way. My car is a case, but I'm keeping it. Maybe by next year...
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2009, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
I haven't shot a water base yet, but my wife's had 2 cars over the last few years that used it, a Mazda 6 and now a new Toyota PRIUS. My impression is the stuff has the lasting ability of chalk. Look at it and it's damaged. I'm way not impressed.

Bogie


Sorry I am a Little Late in Posting to this

Your Wife's car has a Urethane Clear coat.....the water based paint is the color. Water based paint is used on all cars..and been used on Beamers and Porsche's and Mercedes for many Many years.....
And water based just means it uses water as a Means of getting paint the car..when dry it is exactly the same base coat as any urethane is...Just uses Water to Spray it..>>>>>Safer for the guy Spraying the paint
and it is Covered with a Urethane clear....The BEST

Water based Base coats Spray out better..less tiger striping...and make repairs easier...Cover better
Same paint as Any Urethane Base Coat.....just WATER as a thinner


Please lets keep this real..So what Problems do you have with the Urethane Clear coat on your wife's car ????

Your new Prius has a "State of the Art" baked on paint job far Superior to paint jobs from the years past.

I believe we should State facts not Mythology on this forum



52F1
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  #171 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2009, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 52F1
Sorry I am a Little Late in Posting to this

Your Wife's car has a Urethane Clear coat.....the water based paint is the color. Water based paint is used on all cars..and been used on Beamers and Porsche's and Mercedes for many Many years.....
And water based just means it uses water as a Means of getting paint the car..when dry it is exactly the same base coat as any urethane is...Just uses Water to Spray it..>>>>>Safer for the guy Spraying the paint
and it is Covered with a Urethane clear....The BEST

Water based Base coats Spray out better..less tiger striping...and make repairs easier...Cover better
Same paint as Any Urethane Base Coat.....just WATER as a thinner


Please lets keep this real..So what Problems do you have with the Urethane Clear coat on your wife's car ????

Your new Prius has a "State of the Art" baked on paint job far Superior to paint jobs from the years past.

I believe we should State facts not Mythology on this forum



52F1
52F1 is right about the water based paints. And windex does great to clean the gun, trust me on that one!

There is only one draw back about the water based paint... it does not fill as well as the solvent based paints. Whats good about it is that color matches are easier since the factory paint is all water based. And you're also right about the factory finish... nothing beats a baked on and fully cured enamel. If they hadn't ran refrigeration lines to through the concrete at Hoover Dam, the concrete would still be drying.... just as your catalized clear coat and base coats.
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  #172 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 52F1
Sorry I am a Little Late in Posting to this

Your Wife's car has a Urethane Clear coat.....the water based paint is the color. Water based paint is used on all cars..and been used on Beamers and Porsche's and Mercedes for many Many years.....
And water based just means it uses water as a Means of getting paint the car..when dry it is exactly the same base coat as any urethane is...Just uses Water to Spray it..>>>>>Safer for the guy Spraying the paint
and it is Covered with a Urethane clear....The BEST

Water based Base coats Spray out better..less tiger striping...and make repairs easier...Cover better
Same paint as Any Urethane Base Coat.....just WATER as a thinner


Please lets keep this real..So what Problems do you have with the Urethane Clear coat on your wife's car ????

Your new Prius has a "State of the Art" baked on paint job far Superior to paint jobs from the years past.

I believe we should State facts not Mythology on this forum



52F1
The PRIUS is black which has to given some extra credit as scratches are extremely visible. But the facts are that if you do so much as accidentally brush the car with clothes while getting around it in garage, the paint is scratched. If you wash it without keeping the paint constantly flooded with water and be careful, very careful, the paint is scratched. It's been scratched by my wife putting a grocery bags on the ground where the top of the paper bag touched the side of the car. All you do is look at it and it's scratched right to the primer. That's thru the clear coat and color coat. Panel by panel I'm reshooting it in acrylic lacquer or enamel depending on how big an area I need to fix and whether I feel like firing up the compressor and going thru all the gun clean up opposed to using a spry can as I go around fixing the scratches. The factory paint is crummy at best, it just doesn't stand up to normal everyday handling. I wouldn't consider taking this car thru a car wash, I doubt there would be any paint left on it after those brushes got done. If this is State of the Art, the state is at crap.

This is on top of that POS Mazda 6 she had which after of the all the mechanical and electrical problems and constant recall notices, the paint was even crappier than the PRIUS'. That car was burgundy, so again a color that has a lot of contrast to the gray primer, so scratches looked pretty bad.

And we are not hard on things at all. I've never had finish problems anywhere close to what I've had with the two latest cars both of which use these new wiz-bang paints.

I have a 1989 GMC S-15 not exactly known for it's high paint quality. It actually works for a living and it's paint is easily a power factor more robust than the Mazda or the somewhat better PRIUS.

This isn't fantasy, this is my experience in the real world with these things. These aren't show cars, the paint has to stand up against sun, rain, snow, washing, winter time sand, salt and gravel, and some touching, neither the PRIUS' nor the Mazda's paint has proven, in my experience, to be up to the task.

Bogie
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  #173 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
The PRIUS is black which has to given some extra credit as scratches are extremely visible. But the facts are that if you do so much as accidentally brush the car with clothes while getting around it in garage, the paint is scratched. If you wash it without keeping the paint constantly flooded with water and be careful, very careful, the paint is scratched. It's been scratched by my wife putting a grocery bags on the ground where the top of the paper bag touched the side of the car. All you do is look at it and it's scratched right to the primer. That's thru the clear coat and color coat. Panel by panel I'm reshooting it in acrylic lacquer or enamel depending on how big an area I need to fix and whether I feel like firing up the compressor and going thru all the gun clean up opposed to using a spry can as I go around fixing the scratches. The factory paint is crummy at best, it just doesn't stand up to normal everyday handling. I wouldn't consider taking this car thru a car wash, I doubt there would be any paint left on it after those brushes got done. If this is State of the Art, the state is at crap.

This is on top of that POS Mazda 6 she had which after of the all the mechanical and electrical problems and constant recall notices, the paint was even crappier than the PRIUS'. That car was burgundy, so again a color that has a lot of contrast to the gray primer, so scratches looked pretty bad.

And we are not hard on things at all. I've never had finish problems anywhere close to what I've had with the two latest cars both of which use these new wiz-bang paints.

I have a 1989 GMC S-15 not exactly known for it's high paint quality. It actually works for a living and it's paint is easily a power factor more robust than the Mazda or the somewhat better PRIUS.

This isn't fantasy, this is my experience in the real world with these things. These aren't show cars, the paint has to stand up against sun, rain, snow, washing, winter time sand, salt and gravel, and some touching, neither the PRIUS' nor the Mazda's paint has proven, in my experience, to be up to the task.

Bogie
The problem I have with your Original statement is the bashing of water based.....Your Scratches are Urethane..the Clear coat is Baked on Urethane

This is NOT Fantasy...Water based Color is covered with a urethane Clear

So again...No More Fantasy...your scratches are in Urethane..NOT water based paint

So there you have it..the rest of the story..Please don't bash water based products.....Your Not having a Water based Issue...Bashing the Color or base coat for your scratches IS FANATSY

By the way Your 89 GMC has water based paint...lol

52F1
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  #174 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 52F1
The problem I have with your Original statement is the bashing of water based.....Your Scratches are Urethane..the Clear coat is Baked on Urethane

This is NOT Fantasy...Water based Color is covered with a urethane Clear

So again...No More Fantasy...your scratches are in Urethane..NOT water based paint

So there you have it..the rest of the story..Please don't bash water based products.....Your Not having a Water based Issue...Bashing the Color or base coat for your scratches IS FANATSY

By the way Your 89 GMC has water based paint...lol

52F1
Done a lot of sanding in my life, I can tell when the scratch goes to the primer, specially when I'm putting out the elbow grease to sand thru the layers of paint.

My bad forgot to include that the truck's factory paint failed after a year. It was part of the class action suit against GM and was repainted at their expense using acrylic enamel for both the base color and clear coats.

Bogie
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  #175 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2009, 11:14 AM
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Enamel Vs. Topcoat/Clear Coat

After 30 years in the painting business, maybe I can shed a little light on this subject. This is real simple, New School process is to use 2 stage paint, Top Coat/Clear Coat. Start looking around at all the Factory Paint Jobs on Chrysler, Jeep, and GM products that use 2 stage paint. You will find that the Clear coat has chipped, faded or flaked off over the years. Just looking out of my office window, I can see 5 vehicles with this condition. Ferrari, and others Expensive European Sports Cars used to use DuPont Emron, this is an acrylic enamel. Acrylic Enamel is less expensive, and if properly applied will look as good or better than a 2 stage paint (it's Also less expensive.) In my career I have used both types of these paint systems as well as others. (I have even painted cars with Valspar Tractor and Implement Paint, and Rustoleum at the Request of a customer or two.) Single stage paint is easier to use, and easier to touch up than 2 stage paint. in the end, it is a matter of personal preference, and expense. If you are painting intensive graphics, I would use the 2 stage system, so that everything blends in nicely. For a straight basic paint, the Acrylic Enamel is the least expensive and easiest way to go.
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  #176 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2009, 02:07 PM
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If using a single stage, I would go with an acrylic urethane over an acrylic enamel. Any 2 part paint (with harderner) will be superior to a 1 part paint.

Other than that, there I agree with a lot of what Oldpainter says. However, if one intends to color sand a paint for nice flat surface, don't use single stage for metallics. It's then best to go BC/CC. But on solid colors, single stage is great for color sanding.
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