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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2004, 03:31 PM
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Yep, thats a reflection. Now we just have to wait 25 years and see wich lasts the best lol.
http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthr...0&pagenumber=1

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2004, 03:35 PM
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Old timers (I are one!) are very set in their ways and don't like change. No rap on them but many times they are just flat wrong. Brings to mind a friend of mine that I see every year at the NSRA Western Street Rods Nationals here in Bakersfield. He drives a beautiful all steel '42 Willys coupe, nose high gasser style like my '36. It is painted bright Porsche red but the last couple of years it has been showing up with more and more iron oxide red primer on the sheet metal. Finally this year it was 25% primer and the remainder of the once pristine red paint job was covered with spider web cracks. I asked him what happened and was he going to repaint. He replied that this was a 10 year old lacquer job and had just suffered the inevitable failure that lacquer does. No problem so far but his next admission blew me away. He said he had waited so long to repaint because he was looking all over the US for more red lacquer (illegal to sell or spray lacquer in Kalifornia)!!!! I asked him why in the world he wasn't going to upgrade to BC/CC urethane and he said he had never used it, had always sprayed lacquer and didn't want to change!

And I second the notion that single stage acrylic goes bad in only a few years. I painted my '53 Chevy pickup in catalyzed PPG single stage acrylic enamel in 1990. It looked great for about 3 or 4 years but then it slowly began to fade. By the time I tore it down last year it was virtually racing orange (people began to commented on my 'orange' truck) and the shine had totally failed. My Willys is painted in catalyzed PPG BC/CC that was sprayed in 1995, slightly younger, but to this day it looks as good as the day I sprayed it. When I touch up all the road rash and chips caused by my stupidity and clumsiness, the color match is perfect - no detectable fading.

In summary, progress in paint technology is true progress, not just hype. My comments are the observations of a hobbyist, but you whould be wise to take the advice of the pros like Troy & Randy who have commented on this thread. You can waste time and continue to ask for more input, but you have enough information to make a wise decision.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2004, 03:47 PM
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Milo how long ago did you shoot that mercedes? Do you have any vehicles that have been sufficently weathered that are AU?
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2004, 04:04 PM
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I found PPG's CLV to be the toughest paint I can get my hands on here in California. It actualy works best on race cars where you need a paint that can be road/sand blasted following inches behind other cars at speed and not get all chipped up. Got to look good in the pits between races too
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2004, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BarryK
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did not see that stated n PPG web site that it would outlast any clearcoat. That is totally false!!! One most important reason out of another 100 is The "pigments are exposed" to the element's
plus clears have two types of UV's In them and single stage can only use one!
Don't confuse the kid if you don't know.
The "kid" isn't the one confused...http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase...Info.asp?Cat=9

Concept Acylic Urethane is a direct gloss, 2-component refinish system that delivers exceptional gloss and color match for today's sophisticated finishes. It is available in conventional single-stage solid and metallic colors and can be applied over all properly-prepared OEM finishes, and cured, air-dried finishes. Concept CLV is a 3.5 VOC direct gloss system that meets high quality demands in VOC-regulated environments. It meets or exceeds OEM warranty requirements and is part of the PPG Lifetime Guarantee program.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2004, 04:57 AM
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Warranty is different than a statement of "

"This Single stage will out last any Base/Clear"

witch is just stupid along with physically imposable!
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2004, 09:06 AM
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Hello All!

I found this sight by accident but Im glad I did cuz like 70Chevy Im wanting to learn everythng there is to learn about todays paints except that I plan on shooting it myself. Up until I found this forum, Ive only been frequenting strictly 'auto body' type forums but unfortunately it doesnt get that much traffic BUT the guys there seem to know there sh@t.

After reading the first page or two on this thread (I started skimming thru the rest) I decided to join and throw in my $.02.

70chevy, I dont know how old you are and dont take this as an insult cuz Im impressed on how articulate you are in ur posts if ur as young as I think you might be. BUT 8 out of 10 guys have given you more knowledge/advice than anyone cld ever dream about on any subject. You ask for 'reasons' and several gave you reasons but you still seem to seek for that special someone to say its ok to use single stage paint. In doing my research and just admiring paint jobs over the yrs Im wise enough to absorb a good bit of information when I hear not once but twice, three times etc........When experienced painters start sounding alike on a specific subject you gotta ask urself, "self, do I want to ignore what these experienced guys are telling me?" OR take that lil bit of free knowledge they just passed onto you and run with it.

Again Ill admit that I didnt read word for word each post after the first page cuz it just started to sound repetitious to me but I gotta say Im very surprised that not one person mentioned or highly recommend Omni paint (an inexpensive division of PPG) Ive heard nothing but INCREDIBLE reviews on the quality of this paint and its probably priced arnd half of what their PPG DBC/DBU line costs so that shld bring ur cost down substantially assuming that ur painter was talking about top shelf (PPG) figures when he quoted you $500 more. Somethng to ponder!

IMHO, as good as ur painter may very well be (since I dont think anyone else said it).....I think he's just too lazy to adapt to the latest and greatest paint system. It requires a few more (ok much more, Im being nice) steps/cleanup and THAT is probably why he prefers single stage over bc/cc systems. Some ppl get set in their ways and dont want to have to relearn things, their loss!

If Im not mistaken like 99% of todays cars are 2 stage paints, do you think for one sec they dont know there sh@t?

Simply put bc/cc IS the best paint you can put on ur car, PERIOD! As inexperienced as I AM I too think its a no brainer especially if this car is planned to be driven often.

As for that deep DEEP shine ur asking about (are we talking like a candy apple type deep?), Im quite certain the ONLY way to achieve that look is by use of a cc.

Now Id like to hear from Randy about his switch to PPG from DuPont since I just bought $150 worth of their Chromasystem for my motorcycle project! AND has he ever tried their Omni line?
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2004, 11:05 AM
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Randy's out to lunch!!

I made the switch to PPG from DuPont, because I wa not getting the results I was looking for. I got many great paint jobs using DuPont, but I had to do lots of buffing to get there. I had no problem with their basecoat, but I don't get along at all with the clears. I tried 'em all at one time or another, but just couldn't get past orange peel problems. It would go on good, but with more texture than I would like. I adjusted my guns til my fingers bled, but it got no better. Then I used PPG Deltron DBC base with the old DCU2020 clear. WOW!!!! What impressive stuff that was. It went on like glass, straight out of the gun, no buffing required at all!!! Didn't even get any dirt nibs (OK, I was lucky on that part!)
But every time I sprayed the 2020 clear, I got the same results. Even a side by side test with DuPont 7500S clear, there was no comparison. PPG outdid the DuPont for me. That was the last DuPont I used, other than a couple of their products that I prefer to PPG. Even the folks at PPG will admit that DuPont's Vari-Prime is better than their crappy wash primers.

As for the Omni, well, I have used the base, which is much thinner and transparent than DBC bases, but I've only used the DCU2021 clear over it. By the way, the old 2020 clear is no longer available and the closest thing I've found to it in the warranty program line is the VOC replacement, DCU2021. I mix this with DCX61 hardener and reduce with DT885 ALWAYS no matter what temp. I tried the other reducers and it doesn't work as well. For some reason DT885 yields the best flowout. If it really hot and humid I may trickle a little 898 in with it, but not usually. I never use extenders and enhancers either. I can get a slicker job than OEM finishes any day, so what the point of going for better, unless I'm doing a show car, and it's going to get colorsanded to remove all texture anyway.

Anyhow, I haven't tried the Omni clearcoat, so I cannot give you a viable account of the product. Perhaps Troy or Barry could enlighten you.

I have used the Omni S/S urethane and it sprays nice, but again, it's thinner than, oh, I dunno, say, Concept DCC. That stuff is like mud and will cover in one coat in many cases. Just make sure you don't stop at one coat. Apply 2-3. The only thing that concerns me with the Omni system is that it takes more product to achieve coverage, so are you really saving that much???

Hope this answers your questions.

Now, I gotta get go that '63 Z11 Impala aluminum fender built.
See y'all later

Randy Ferguson
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2004, 12:16 PM
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I've never used omni, so can't tell you anything about it. There are some here that swear by it, so maybe they will post there opinion. I think there was a poll and a lengthy discussion recently, you might search back and find it.

Troy

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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2004, 12:20 PM
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Thnx a LOT Randy!!!

I cld tell already I found a new 'paint' forum! It wld of taken a half day to few days to get a reply at the 'other' forum. lol!
Randy: My local supplier sold me a qt of the HC7600S, have you heard whether or not if this is any better than there 7500 line?

Funny that Randy mentioned it before me, I HAVE heard several ppl using the Omni base with the PPG clear (as Ive been reading its probably the BEST clear out there) to save 'some' $$$ and have had excellant results.

As far as, "is it worth using (cost wise) if it takes more coats to cover".........I think it depends on the project and quantity needed I suppose but just looking a gallon comparison of the DBC (PPG) and MBC (Omni) there is a $300+ difference between the two (lloking at there most expensive color chart). If one gallon is all you need for a specific project and you wind up using all of the Omni product vs having a 1/2 gallon or less left over with PPG to get the same hiding/coverage, do you really need to pay top dollar for somethng thats gonna be wasting away in a can?
The ONLY thing us DIY'ers need to keep an eye out for when we read all these recommendations is to keep in mind that a lot of the GOOD advice is coming from ppl (pro's) who arent paying for the product soooooo its all good for them the more the merrier!

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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2004, 11:22 PM
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Clearcoat can work too if you don't mind sanding and buffing.
http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1440
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2004, 12:02 AM
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Hey Milo, will Omni Clear last as long as that CLV?
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2004, 12:11 AM
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No.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2004, 01:56 AM
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Hey Milo, Is that CLV Acrylic Enamel ? Why doesn't anyone else like it?
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2004, 02:45 AM
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No, it's Acrylic Urethane ..

I think it's mostly contempt prior to investigation.
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