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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2005, 12:10 AM
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actually I work things out way ahead of time. I ended up spending the entire summer having to work to pay off my loan to buy all the stuff and am still working on bodywork and am shooting for paint July of 05

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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2005, 08:11 PM
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I put delstar [gold metalic] on my 37 and its been sitting outside for two years in Colorado. It went on easy took the clear nice and buffed out smooth. I did sand the color before adding the clear which did not take hardner only the color required hardner ...But this B/C C/C job I am on now is really tough. Maybe I will change my mind later but just at this date I have over $850 in materials and it ain't done yet! I just wanted to try B/C C/C but I am not yet impressed. Also us old guys like lacquor its only disatvantage is it dont hold up good in the sun ...less than 5 years around here. For as much work and expense the B/C C/C is I am very dissapointed thus far.
The 37 material was less than $500. But the 39 is 'red' and they say red cost more. I am going back to delstar next job. Especially on my truck [black]which must sit outside. Its original B/c C/C is so bad even the Ford dealer admits its junk but because it is out of their warrenty I am stuck with their junk.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2005, 08:09 PM
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"Also us old guys like lacquor its only disatvantage is it dont hold up good in the sun ...less than 5 years around here."

That is a major disadvantage, especially with red which alligators so readily with lacquer. The labor to properly prepare the car for paint pretty much leaves the cost difference of $850 vs $500 in materials down in the noise. When the paint fails within five years all that work has to be repeated with new materials. So modern paints have a superior ownership cost.

As you say, us old guys like lacquer compared to the wet look of BC/CC. It looks more appropriate on the older cars. Which 2K products would more closely match the original lacquer of the late 60's? I've read that a 2K single stage such as PPG Concept DCC can be blended with 2021 clear for the last coat to make it similar in appearance to the original lacquer. I'm interested to hear how similar or different that looks. I'm also interested in other alternatives that will look more original.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2005, 07:16 AM
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B/c C/c

I think modern paint sucks.
All these newbees that don't know any better think its great but between its costs and prep and application needs its just not there. You have to put more labor into B/C C/C that any of the old Lacquor jobs and the touch up in Lacquor is almost instant not wait for it to set and re-coat sealers and and and its plain bull! We used to call that look the newbees like today 'Dime store shine'. Actually it was unacceptable. And orange peel was totally out!I've got a 1983 Ford truck that has sat out for all its life and the paint still cleans up better than my 'newbee' cars. My 99 trucks' paint is shot its B/C C/C; been bad for some years. And you still see all those cars from late 80s peeling and paint falling off thats your modern paint.
Old style Lacquor is still around on many old old cars and if you find one from a barnyard or whatever try and shine a patch it still will clean up [except maybe enamel]. People still think if it costs more its got to be better but the labor for a nice job is still the same and it burns me to go through all the effort to do one and know it won't last. Even the old Ford and Mopar enamals were better than todays B/C C/C. I have had good luck with the PPG Delstar metalics with hardner and then adding their clear [no hardner] on last it looks like old style enamel. Buffs up good also. My most recent job has been sitting outside for the past three years and still looks good except for a few body flaws.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2005, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firebird_red
"Also us old guys like lacquor its only disatvantage is it dont hold up good in the sun ...less than 5 years around here."

That is a major disadvantage, especially with red which alligators so readily with lacquer. The labor to properly prepare the car for paint pretty much leaves the cost difference of $850 vs $500 in materials down in the noise. When the paint fails within five years all that work has to be repeated with new materials. So modern paints have a superior ownership cost.

As you say, us old guys like lacquer compared to the wet look of BC/CC. It looks more appropriate on the older cars. Which 2K products would more closely match the original lacquer of the late 60's? I've read that a 2K single stage such as PPG Concept DCC can be blended with 2021 clear for the last coat to make it similar in appearance to the original lacquer. I'm interested to hear how similar or different that looks. I'm also interested in other alternatives that will look more original.

Since I am into older Vettes, this is also a concern of mine. I have done both Lacquer jobs and SS Urethane. Anyone would be hard pressed to tell the difference in the final jobs after color sanding & buffing. However, your door jambs where you don't buff will look a little more shiny with the SS than the lacquer. The urethane that I used last was PPG DAU SS which has now been discontinued. And, I have not added clear to the final coats.
I am doing an original '69 roadster right now and am going to use the PPG Global Direct Gloss SS as they do not have a formula for the '69 Daytona Yellow in the Concept SS.

You might as well go with the SS and the better durability. But, there is nothing wrong with going with lacquer. Especially if the car is just going to be used only on Saturday nights and stay in the garage most of the time.
Just be sure not to use Lacquer primers. Always use 2K primers.

Roger
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2005, 09:49 AM
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Hey hey a man after my own heart. I also have been into vettes but quit when the pirates came onto the scene. I have now a 71 BB and a 59 convert. Bought the 71 new and now it has about 2600 miles on it. Painted it twice just to see what it would look like...Lacquor of course. Once red and once black its still black last time I looked at it ...been buried in the gurage last 30 years. The 59 has a new factory [in 1964] 327 dual 4s with 8000 miles on it and I have the original engine rebuilt with 2-4s on a stand somewhere in my gurage. Had a 1978 silvery anaversery but some body shop put enamel on it after collision repair and I had to get tide of it...just could not get the paint right after the enamel got into the glass.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2005, 10:24 AM
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I am by far not any expert, but even at my age I have seen laquer, enamel, SS, and bc/cc... I also agree that we are all a contrary bunch of men regarding our ways and what not, and I know this thread is as old as the hills too... One thing for sure, out of all of the above mentioned paints, the only ones I have seen last and last with shine, setting in the weather going through the salt etc.. during winters is the bc/cc system..... I hardly wash my own vehicle these days, and by george I can wash it, put on one coat of just about anything and it will shine like a new dime, and its a 97 with mostly factory paint... Fords at that.... Just my 2 cents

Matthew
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2005, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wally
Hey hey a man after my own heart. I also have been into vettes but quit when the pirates came onto the scene. I have now a 71 BB and a 59 convert. Bought the 71 new and now it has about 2600 miles on it. Painted it twice just to see what it would look like...Lacquor of course. Once red and once black its still black last time I looked at it ...been buried in the gurage last 30 years. The 59 has a new factory [in 1964] 327 dual 4s with 8000 miles on it and I have the original engine rebuilt with 2-4s on a stand somewhere in my gurage. Had a 1978 silvery anaversery but some body shop put enamel on it after collision repair and I had to get tide of it...just could not get the paint right after the enamel got into the glass.
Wow Wally, those Vettes sound great! I like to see pictures if you could post them sometime. I've never had a C1 but have dreamed of having '61 or '62 for a long time. Here's a link to my photo albums:
http://hotrodders.com/gallery/showga...0&ppuser=17782

With the right products your '78 would have been easy to fix. Polyester primers work like a dream on the old vettes.
Chemical strippers can be real hard on that old glass however and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened. It might have needed "spray gelcoat" or epoxy primer before the other primers. If they used lacquer primer over chemical stripped glass, then that would be nothing but problems.

Roger
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2005, 11:15 AM
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wash and wear

On that '78 Vette I tried everything available including stripping to bare glass...nothing would hold. Finally sold it in 96...I thought the silver anaverserys would be valuable but they are still nothing. Just like the Thunderbirds seems they have been the same price for the past twenty years ..it may be there are too many or too much of a rust bucket with the unibody construction. Only ONLY real Vette is the 1967 BB coupe all else is nothing.

As to the bc/cc remark "wash and wear" yeh, if you like shinny orange peal. I got a 99 Ford and I am telling you factory bc/cc is just shinny orange peal your standards are 'wacked'. But then again as young as you are perhaps your brainwashed into thinking anything Detroit puts out is great. In reality we have been had by the treehuggers.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2005, 11:19 AM
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opps forgot

Cannot provide pics... the cars are buried and My skills do not include getting that digital camera product on line.
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2005, 11:27 AM
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Well i was just looking through some forums this morning and stumbled onto a pretty good discussion.Im only 21 but been around painting since i was 15..and started at a career centerin Collision Repair.Well i finished the program with 2200 hours.And then after that was complete went to Nashville Auto Diesel college which they have a real good customs type class..3ASE's later getta speak my words...In my career center schooling..We used Martin Senior and Sherwin Williams.Decent cheap paints,They have your crossfire then Tec base.Crossfire is very thin you can get a whole pearl paint job with clear using crossfire for under 250 with reducers and hardners.then the Tec line is good just for spot jobs to much for what it is to do a whole car.Then the talk of Omni and PPG..its same exact thing like "Martin Senior andSherwin Williams".Omni is still a good paint base wise but as someone posted it does take more being so much thinner.The PPG paints fill really well...almost like a filler primer.Specially the concept clear or DCV35 clear.And you are not paying much more for the good PPG than you are the Martin senior.Ihavent delt with DuPont that much..but comparing DuPonts bestclear which i can get for $430 for a gallon with reducer and hardner and get the PPG concept in a gallon with everthing or $271...go figure which one i would pick.and on the Urethane paints Vs BC/CC...They do make some great Urethanes now..they just dont give the depth as BC/CC..they are jut a solid look to me..where as BC/CC looks like its under glass.which it practicly is in a way.But if you just want a nice good paint job..and live in bumpy area..with coal trucks like me..it might be a good idea.On my honda when i painted it in the Fall..2nd week in September,I used the crossfire martin senior paints..and didnt use reducer i use it a a Laquer paint.It laves a goo clean shine..but DOESNT LAST LONG!!..the car got totalled out now im repainting it with a buncha xtra goodys on the car..but the paint has faded already.i dont recommend it for this day an age unless your just a weekend warrior and i sits in the garage 85% of the time..sorry if such a big post...but might as well make my first 1 here a doozy..dont know if i helped any??but ya know your choices i guess and comparison.
attached are pics of the paint i sprayed on my car.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2005, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
Are you sure it's acrylic enamel and not acrylic urethane your painter is saying lasts better than a clearcoated finish?

Heres a link to a acrylic urethane that will last and hold it's gloss years longer than any clearcoat could hope. http://www.autocolorlibrary.com/cmg/clv.html
That's it in a nutshell... PPG's CONCEPT CLV mixed with DX-84 and DCX-61 will outlast ANY clear coat wanna be AND appear period correct for years to come,,, don't buy into the clear coat UV hype!!!


Last edited by milo; 06-16-2005 at 07:45 AM.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2005, 07:43 AM
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Single stage urethane metalics are really tough to spray for a novice though, hell some of the coarse metalics are tough to spray for the experienced. Solid colors work very will as a singlestage, especially when you add 50% of a compatible clear to the las two coats-better depth and buffability. I do not spray any metalic single stage anymore, bc/cc for metalics is so much better IMO.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2005, 07:48 AM
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Same nutshell
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.http://hotrodders.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=13
http://hotrodders.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=15
http://hotrodders.com/forums/showpos...1&postcount=51
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Last edited by milo; 06-16-2005 at 08:01 AM.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2005, 10:34 PM
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Same here, I don't spray metallics in single stage. I remember spraying single stage enamel metallic when I was learning to paint, and the spraying a panel and jumping back to the previous panel you painted with a mistcoat kinda sucks. With basecoat it is so much easier. As far as factory basecoat clearcoat being shiney orange peel is only cause that is the way they spray them. The sheetmetal is thinner now, and not always real straight. I believe they do that on purpose. Urethane may have a very slight amount of orange peel but wetsanding and buffing will take care of that and Lacquer you have to buff to get the gloss too, and spill a little gas on both and see which one is better.
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