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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlythegood
. They suggested that I apply DX1791 etch on the bare metal and DPLF epoxy over the area
Are you sure that's what they told you? Their own tech sheets says not
to use epoxy over etch primer. That's a no-no.

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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 07:01 AM
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I'm no expert but...

That won't stop me from putting in my $.02.

Seems to me it depends on the finish (Flake or Solid) and the use the car will see.

AE with the proper hardeners has shine all the way through. THat means if you get some surface imperfections, you can color sand and buff it back. With BC/CC you rub through the CC and you're toast. Also, with AE if you get a little orange peel or a sag, you can sand it out and buff it. MAke a mistake applying BC/CC and your into a whole new project.

So, for a solid colored street driver, AE is durable, looks great (but probably not show quality million miles deep shine like BC/CC is capable of), forgiving, and cheaper.

On the street, I'd go AE.
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark'zinger70
sounds like hes a old school backyard bodyman,,,baseclear is the only way 2 go!!!!!!
And I take that (old school backyard bodyman) as a compliment.. thank you.
As far as the baseclear goes .. try spraying some urethane enamel with activator then post again. You may be drawn to the dark side.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BondoKing
OTG shoulda used epoxy instead of etch
Hey BK.. you got that right !! Out of habit I etched the bare metal.
This is what was causing the problem all along. Hopefully my car can survive all of my OE's and come out looking decient after all. Fingers crossed.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBill
AE with the proper hardeners has shine all the way through. THat means if you get some surface imperfections, you can color sand and buff it back. .
That's not entirely true, When you spray AE a certain amount of its own
clear floats to the surface and protects the pigment and metallics.
If you sand through and expose those pigments they will oxidize quickly.
Sure, you can buff it out again to a shine but it won't hold long.
You'll see the color of the paint on your buffing pad if you
go through. This was a big problem back in the 80's with silver paint
and a lot of other colors. If you didn't clearcoat them they faded quickly.
Don't think I'm against AE, I'm not. But if you want the buffing ability
with it you need to clearcoat it with clear AE (w/ hardener of course)
Some colors like blue are almost impossible to sand and rub out with
Acrylic enamel without being cleared. I learned that the hard way.
But once cleared, it looks as good as anything out there if rubbed out.
And with the hardener I can wipe it with lacquer thinner with no harm.
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 03:11 PM
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re: Acrylic Enamel vs. Base Coat Clear Coat

Wow this is a long thread and a very interesting read.

For paint on a old hot rod, Street rod I prefer Single Stage Urethane based paint as opposed to base coat + clear coat.

A bc/cc job can look good, in some cases too good. An old car looking
like a mirror in my humble opinion does not look that great as it takes from
the look of the car

The first thing to go bad over time on a BC/CC paint job is typically the
clear. When it fades due to the sun you get left with a nice white patch
on your hood or roof etc. A single stage paint will also fade but the fading
will be less noticable.


3 One of the main reasons I prefer single stage paint is that you can shoot
clear over it if you like. If the car buff's out nice after your paint job you
can make the call at that time as to what you want to do, leave as is or
shoot clear over it for added DOI. the advantage is obvious. If you were
only doing a BC/CC job your paint would be flat so you would have to clear
it.

The paint I use is Valspar Omega 2K Single Stage. This paint is a urethane based paint that does not cost the earth and produces very nice results.

Here is a link. http://www.autopaintdirect.com/topcoats.html

Thanks... X
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 06:09 PM
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Wow your right about this becoming a long long thread .. amazing what 2 cents worth will return. I don't think there is much argument that each paint has its place benefits and draw backs. I have been spraying single-stage for about 35 years and believe it or not I have a 2 stage project in work right now. It is definitely a learning process. Sure I have screwed up on some things (ie. using a new hvlp gun like my old faithful conventional siphon feed devilbiss. This will probably become a whole new thread in itself).
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcclark
That's not entirely true, When you spray AE a certain amount of its own
clear floats to the surface and protects the pigment and metallics.
If you sand through and expose those pigments they will oxidize quickly.
Sure, you can buff it out again to a shine but it won't hold long.
You'll see the color of the paint on your buffing pad if you
go through. This was a big problem back in the 80's with silver paint
and a lot of other colors. If you didn't clearcoat them they faded quickly.
Don't think I'm against AE, I'm not. But if you want the buffing ability
with it you need to clearcoat it with clear AE (w/ hardener of course)
Some colors like blue are almost impossible to sand and rub out with
Acrylic enamel without being cleared. I learned that the hard way.
But once cleared, it looks as good as anything out there if rubbed out.
And with the hardener I can wipe it with lacquer thinner with no harm.
The blue you are referring to, does it have metal flake or straight color ? This
is interesting because I am about to paint a 65 Impala midnight blue and was hoping to sand/rub it out to a show quality shine. I always use hardener if this makes any difference. Does it ?
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 07:33 PM
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Glad I had time to kill tonight. Good stuff.

Blue in general weather solid or metallic is a pain IMO due to it's pigment make up. Even a soild color can easly "change" on you with a light cut & buff. I'm no expert but most any blue I've "worked over" has had shifting problem's.
Red is another.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2005, 05:00 AM
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The blue I used was a metallic. And yes a hardener helps in getting it
hard enough to rub out. It's a must if you're going to buff it.
I don't think it does anything as far as color is concerned, when
you sand into blue you usually get "rings", with or without hardener.
That's what happened to me anyway. And when I went back to the
store the guy said "you can't sand and buff out blue, you have to
clearcoat it first" and so I did. And thereafter I always cleared after
the color coat. It's just so much easier that way, and more durable.
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2005, 03:08 PM
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This thread was started back in April 2004. I'm just curious, where's the picture of 70Chevy's finished product?
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2006, 06:29 PM
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On a final note

Well I painted 2 cars since I started with this thread and I thought I would share my final analysis on the matter. No question about it both types of paint went on well and shine like there is no tomorrow. Unfortunately both vehicles had accidents. One hit a very big object and the entire left front was crushed. The other had an encounter with a metal rake and a wiper blade. The paint on the vehicle that hit the big object is all there following all the contours of the large wrinkle and crunch although it did tear where he metal did. The grass rake chipped a silver dollar size chip out of the front of the vehicle and the windshield wiper blade also left a dime size chip where it hit the fender. One job cost almost $2000 the other around $200 for materials only. It is my belief that the paint manufacturers had an excellent product and a limited market so they created the new better and much improved product added a bunch of marketing and started the "two stage rocks movement" to move their new improved and totally inferior product.

Just be aware of which side of the check book the people are that are giving you advise are on. As a joke I painted one fender on the 2 stage car with single stage. Not one person could tell me which panel it was. I would have appreciated it if PPG gave me a kiss with the last purchase. Maybe I am old fashioned and all but I usually get a kiss when I am getting screwed.
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2006, 07:22 PM
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THAt's like comparing an earl shive,macco,econo paint job to an custom paint shop and single stage hah better than bc/cc neva heard that one before it's may be possible hey what I now I'm what my cousin calls a young buck know it all but I've neva seen single stage look better than bc/cc that's just my opinion!
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2006, 11:03 AM
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Is the difference, that can only be noted if you put your nose right up to it, worth paying 10 times the price for ? The paint for the rake and wiper blade repairs is around $400. If I used the "cheaper" paint I wouldn't be having this conversation. It may have had a dent in it but the paint would still be there.

If you have that kind of money to lay out or better yet some Butt hole that is willing to pay for it more power to ya. Just for grins .. how many cars have you restored and painted ? Not throwing stones just curious. I was restoring cars as far back as that late '60's.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:08 AM
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how do i mix bases coat clear coat paint

can any one tell me how to mix the bases coat paint im useing ppg base clear coat its just been so long i cant remeber if i need a harder in the base paint
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