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Old 11-09-2013, 08:15 PM
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Adding clear coat to mteallic base, saves the day again

I've been told more that once that adding clear coat to metallic base wasn't a good idea, but for about the fourth time I've done this it always works out well. This time I had some spots that started cracking when I sprayed my first coat of metallic over sealer. The cracking was my fault, I screwed up on my first coat of sealer. Any how I spot in with my air brush the places where I had to sand out the cracking with metallic base. I had one coat of metallic already on the spoiler an now I have 4 different colored or different looking metallic spots. I spray another full coat of metallic and I can plainly see the spots. I let this flash. Then I do a mix of 50℅ sprayable clear coat & 50% sprayable metallic base pore that into spray cup an spray. As I've said before it will compleatly cover an fix almost any metallic problems that were present on the last coat. They I always spray a full coat of unmixed (no metallic) clear coat over that to lock it in.

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Old 11-09-2013, 08:25 PM
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The main problem you will have doing it that way will be if you ever have to repair it. You are in a round about way creating a (for lack of better wording) candy, which will vary in color shade and metallic "flip". That will cause a matching problem between panels sprayed at different times which can be a big enough pain with metallic and pearls without adding any other variables. It will also make the paint almost impossible to match later on if a repair is needed, similar to the issues of candy colors. Not trying to be ugly, just want to make sure others that may not be as experienced as you are aware of the possible problems of doing it this way. Glad it worked out for you, and I hope everything continues to go well with you project.

Kelly
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:07 AM
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Dogwater, Kelly hit the nail right on the head. Yes, it will solve an immediate problem but, what you need to ask yourself is why you've been told more than once, by different people, that this isn't necessarily a good idea. The color will be virtually impossible to match...even if you used the same mixture over the same area. I've done many repairs on vehicles over the years and in all honesty, I have never added a metallic base to catalyzed clear for the reason Kelly described as well as others.

It worked for you, and, I'm sincerely happy for you, but, as you mentioned, you already had a week substrate...adding reduced color to catalyzed clear can (and I have seen it) cause even more wrinkling. The reason being is that the active ingredients in base coat reducer added to catalyzed clear can keep the mixture open longer and attack the already suspect substrate...causing the substrate to let go and separate (wrinkle). I know you've done this before and it has worked...honestly...it's just a matter of time before it doesn't work and you will have a larger repair on your hands.

As I said, I'm glad it worked for you but, on the same token, and no offence Dogwater, this is a repair I wouldn't recommend for repairability and the longevity of a paint job.

Ray
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:56 PM
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I won't be doing this to the body or anything that can't be taken off. I also wouldn't do this to any body elses car either, for the same reasons that have been stated. God forbid that someone would want me to paint their car! I did spray the door & trunk jams an the underside of the trunk lid doing this. But it is great info. for the first time painter who runs into that " Oh my god what have I done" moment. Adding 50% of your base to the clear coat wiil make it one shade darker, this is for metallic I don't know what a non metallic would do.
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Old 11-10-2013, 05:58 PM
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why wouldn't you just spray the several coats of base that it would take to do it right, or do a drop coat on a wet coat of base to even out the metallic? That's what the first time painter should do.
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:01 AM
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That's what I've been doing, every thing has 2 coats of metallic base. I had three spots that some cracking showed up, about 3/8 each. Sanded them smooth then spotted them with metallic in my air brush, mainly to see if they were going to crack again, they didn't. I gave them another coat with the air brush, so now I have a spoiler fully coated with metallic an 3 different looking spots. So on my first coat of clear I added 1 1/2 oz of metallic with reducer to1 1/2 oz of clear with hardner. I'm just tinting the clear coat. It will blend in the 3 spots perfectly. You know how metallic is, you can't see anything wrong until a coat of clear is on it. If a corner is to light or some striping shows up tint your next coat of clear. I always spray another coat of untinted clear over the tinted coat. It works. Fish eyes haven't had much of them but I've found that if you just spray over them with the next coat of metallic it pretty much covers them up as long as you found what was causing them. Then tint your first coat of clear an there totally gone.
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:21 AM
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You're getting those spots because you're just spraying the spots with your air brush, which isn't going to have the same metallic pattern as your HVLP gun you sprayed the rest of the panel with. Which is why I'm saying if you have spots, respray the ENTIRE panel (unless the settings on your HVLP gun and air pressure don't change from when originally sprayed it...in which case you can just spray over the spot) with your metallic (which isn't what you're doing) and it fixes all the spots and you have a uniform coat. Or if you need to even out the metallic more, spray your coat of base, then turn your gun pressure up 5 pounds, pull back 8-12" and do a quick drop coat over the wet base. Your metallic is even and consistent...this even fixes striping. Then you don't even need to touch the clear to mix in.

I was using solvent wax and grease remover (since it was safe to use on my base) to wetten to simulate clear, of which it does well, then I'd immediately wipe it off. I read on here a trick to use saran wrap to simulate clear but I tried it and it didn't work very well.
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:20 AM
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my question is why not fix the sealer problem instead of putting a band aid over it?

why is the sealer failing?
that would be my concern.
learn how to stop that problem and have no problems with it in the future.

One reason why I like SPI, their epoxy makes an excellent sealer, and base coats stick to it like glue with no other problems.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:07 PM
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Band aids are so much faster, the epoxy primer I've been using is just as good as that other brand. Once its on the car dried an cured, one could call it any brand name an nobody would ever know the diff. I'm sure that SPI is just as good as other epoxies but since I cant go to the paint store an just buy it guess I'll never use it. It probably no better than what I use now.
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Old 12-22-2013, 02:50 PM
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You don't have a clue, dude.
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Old 12-22-2013, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogwater View Post
Band aids are so much faster, the epoxy primer I've been using is just as good as that other brand. Once its on the car dried an cured, one could call it any brand name an nobody would ever know the diff. I'm sure that SPI is just as good as other epoxies but since I cant go to the paint store an just buy it guess I'll never use it. It probably no better than what I use now.
I figure with SPI's price, quality, and FREE SHIPPING it is probably cheaper AND better than what you are using.

I am sure what you use is "good enough"......But, Something caused you a problem.
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Old 12-22-2013, 03:30 PM
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your wasting your time recommending spi to this one john .

Originally Posted by dogwater View Post
I'm sure that I'll be thrown under the bus & treated like a red headed step child but it seems to me that if a person isn't using a a SPI product then your just as dumb a box of rocks. Is their anyone who agrees with me? Anyone....... Hey, anyone....... Im compleatly neutral as I don't paint or work in a body shop so I can't say anything good or bad about SPI. But its more of the followers,the gang, or the SPI thugs. I was mostly disappointed by Barrys comments on the body restore board the other day. I'm sure the SPI gang will flock in here an say how their all pro's & how we know everything & how dumb your are for not using SPI. Hell they have their own web site...... Go back there. Or just do this, when somebody ask a paint related question don't ask what kind of paint there using, just give a correct answer or don't answer at all.
" OK I see the bus comming, man its bigger than I thought"
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Old 12-22-2013, 03:38 PM
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LOL. Ok, I get it.
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:26 AM
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Wow, you saved that, it got dumped an I wasn't able to save it. I just noticed the lack of posts on here last week an thought I stir the pot a little. I just reworded my post to make it seem that SPI just might be on par with other epoxys. Oops I did it again. I guess you all don't see it but your selling SPI, an I don't think its right to only recommend one brand. What really got me was a post that I got saying I was in so many words ""clueless " for not using SPI. Yes I'm clueless you don't have to tell me. This is the only place where if someone questions anything regarding SPI you get thrown under the bus.
And the clueless say MERRY XAMS TO ALL. (I'm just having fun at your expense)
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:58 AM
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your clueless because of how your trying to do this repair .
10 years ago when i came here i was a ppg shop. but the change in dp epoxy was horrible and the clears went down too. i read about spi here and tested it. unlike you i am a professional in this field . i will not use anything until tested and i damn sure wont recommend it if it does not perform. if your looking for backup on bashing spi good luck with that . first you need to find someone who has had a problem with it .

and all your cute post about spi and those who use it is still here for all to see.
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