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Old 12-09-2011, 06:26 PM
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Adhesive for door patches

I've read some interesting discussions on using adhesives to patch panels and would like to consider this for repairs on my 1937 Buick Roadmaster.
See picture of the driver side rear door that is most rusted.
If it is possible to do these repairs in this manner it would save me a lot of time and money because I do not own a welder and will have to learn to weld.
I have lot's of experience using adhesive.
1) Will this method work well for bottom of the doors?
2) Is it better to:
a) make a larger patch first and glue it to the back side, and then glue a close fitting patch on the outside surface or
b) Make a flanged patch that fits on the back side with the front flush with the outside?
3) Can anyone recommend a source for bottom patches that would match the 1937 Buick Roadmaster doors?
Thanks
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutt's37Buick
.......b) Make a flanged patch that fits on the back side with the front flush with the outside?
3) Can anyone recommend a source for bottom patches that would match the 1937 Buick Roadmaster doors?
This would be the way to do the patch; with the flange glued
and the patch flush with the outside. Remove all rust before
patching, and follow the adhesive instructions.

You'll probably have to scrounge the metal for the door repair. It
looks fairly straight, so maybe it won't be too hard to bend to
the right contour. Most home improvement stores have a wide
selection of sheet metal in different gauges. Might be worth a
look, and it's brand new metal....
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:51 PM
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The only thing I see is that the structural part of the door probably has rust that needs to be addressed. I would think that it would need welding to fix.
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Old 12-10-2011, 07:47 AM
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For the patch panel itself ,you can go to any sheetmetal shop and have the piece bent up for a few bucks...
The glue you want is a weld bond adheasive from SEM pt#39537 follow the directions carefully .You'llalso need some drillscrews every inch or two to hold it all together while the glue drys along the flanged seam. When its dry pull all the screws out,countersink holes and fill holes with more glue...
Tips for a better glue joint:
the flange joint should be in the old metal Not the new patch,so the edge of the flanged seam is pointing down so it wont hold moisture if the seam sealer fails...
Before you make your flange grind both sides of the door You'll never get a good flange with under coating and crap still on the back side
To make grinding the back side easier you get an air grinder and put two grinding discs back to back so one disc is facing you just slip it behind the skin and grind from the outside..
Theres a chance of getting a ghost seam with the glue,so when everything is dry grind out the glue in the flanged groove where the old and new metal meet and fill with "All metal" then the bondo of your choice.

when done right a glued seam is just as good or better than a welded seam and water tight too.
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Old 12-10-2011, 07:48 AM
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The glue works great on edges or where you can bend the metal over on the edge but not so well across the center of the panel. Sometimes you can see the butt line in the right light do to expansion.
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Old 12-10-2011, 09:06 AM
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Refresh my memory I forget if it's 36 or 37 that is the last year for the wood structure in those cars. If your doors or of wood structure you have a lot more to learn about this animal.

On the gluing of the patch panels, this is a method you can use as a "bestest" way, but it is by not means the "best" way to repair a door. No matter how you do it with glue you WILL have a "ghost" line that will be seen once painted. How bad it is depends on many factors but you WILL see one.

Welding the patch in is the right way, hands down.

Brian
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Old 12-10-2011, 09:14 AM
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I just took a look at your photo, by the looks of your rust going UP the door by the hinge that is a wood framed door. The wood holds the moisture and that is going to open up a whole new can of worms for you. The patch will be darn near the whole bottom of the door by the looks of it.

It looks like you haven't touched the car and this was your focal point being it is visible and jumping out at you.

This car is going to need a LOT more work than that and just fixing these doors is not where it will stop. I highly recommend you put the doors off a little and start disassembling the car. Don't strip it completely but remove the fenders at least to give you an idea of what you are working with. You are likely to find more rust, rust that is easier to fix. Start getting your feet wet with the stuff that is easier to fix. I am going to say that fixing that door is likely going to require a new skin from the body line down. There are many people who can make a simple skin like that for you. That, or you get better doors. Or of course you start repairing the easier stuff and by the time you get to those doors you will be a metal master and you will make a skin yourself.

But this is not going to be a simple "patch panel", the wood is going to have to be removed from the door and the metal all cleaned from the back. It is rusting from the inside out so there is a LOT of rust you aren't seeing.

Brian
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swvalcon
The glue works great on edges or where you can bend the metal over on the edge but not so well across the center of the panel. Sometimes you can see the butt line in the right light do to expansion.
exactly. I'd say glue the edges and plug weld and flange elsewhere.
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:54 PM
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Brian is totally right.
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:04 PM
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for panel bonding I use crest 3500 panel bond it does have a 24 set up time but you can do body work over it without any adverse reactions like you sometimes get over 3m panel bond i even squeeze some into the seam to act as filler
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:53 AM
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Thanks for all your feedback.
The doors are said to have wood frames in them that I'm planning on replacing. That will be easier for me because I have done a lot of woodwork through the years and have a lot of wood working equipment.
I'm planning a frame off build and I have a local oval track shop lined up to do the suspension and chassis work. Front suspension/brakes will get the Wiki BOP upgrade treatment. Rear will be '97 Tbird irs that I already bought.
I'm just trying to get a handle on the whole project before I start spending cash. The more I save now leaves more for a better paint job.
The rust at the front of the front fenders and below the grill is also bad. See picture.
Questions I'm trying to answer:
1) Do I need a welder (or can I use just panel bond process) and
2) if so, should it be 115 volt or 230volt.
Some tell me to buy 230volt and some say 115V will suffice. 230V are $400 more and require me to add another circuit to my garage for another $100 in materials.
This is probably the only car I will use the welder on and all the chassis welding will be done by the track car shop.
I'm going for a 95% rebuild that will be a daily driver.
Thanks for all your help
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:13 AM
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Thanks very much for all your advice.
I'm looking for a MIG welder.
Can anyone tell me if the Millermatic with auto-set is worth the extra dollars for a beginner?
Thanks
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:38 AM
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The problem with weld bond glues is they are a very expensive way to do repairs,at 40.00 a tube by the time your done you could have bought a 110 welder...Theres no doubt that for a pro welding is the best way for many reasons but it also comes with a few draw backs and needs to be learned...The metal your working with is pretty thick so warping might not be such a big issue.buying a welder would be my advice because it can be used for many things around the house and shop and welding is a lot of fun.Gluing is a PITA but you can get a safe and good job from it.If I was you and I tried the glue I'd only glue the seam NOT the perimeter or where the skin folds over on the back ,NOT EVER ,if there a problem you'll never get it back apart again without destroying BOTH pieces.A glued joint is stronger than the metal its holding. Since youv'e never done either I would suggest making a patch panel and tring the glued seam first to see how well it works if you have any trouble or you dont like working with it no problem just cut it back out about an inch higher remove it and try again making another patch and welding it.you might like welding better...but welding is a lot harder and you better read up on it before doing a door skin repair....
although a 220 welder is what a pro needs ,a 110 will do this kind of work with no problems, save some cash and get a good used lincoln or miller ...
Have you conciderd getting a full door skin ???? you might be able to get them
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:22 AM
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I'm looking at the Hobart 140 (list $660)
http://www.hobartwelders.com/product...ed/handler140/
or the Millermatic 140 with EZ-set (list $862)
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...p?model=M00234
Can buy either for less than list, but the Millermatic is definitly a couple of hundred more.
I have read these are pretty comparable and may even be same product, except for the auto-set.
Is the Auto-set on the Miller-matic worth $200 for a beginner welder?
Thanks
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutt's37Buick
Is the Auto-set on the Miller-matic worth $200 for a beginner welder?
Thanks


I bought one of these for my first MIG welder. It does allow you to start out learning to control weld pool instead of fighting the settings. HOWEVER, if you only learn to use one like this than you will be pretty useless on anything else unless the settings are already set for you.


Haven't had a bit of trouble with mine for over five years now.
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