Advanced timing 454 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2012, 11:46 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 221
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Advanced timing 454

I recently put a new timing chain on my engine advanced 4 degrees. I just started the engine and it runs fine, however while using the timing light the mark on the balancer is at the 6 o'clock position and nowhere near the timing tab. I adjust the distributor to bring the mark around to line up with the tab and the engine stalls. Anyone have an idea of what might be going on here? Thanks

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2012, 12:43 PM
Custom10's Avatar
my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

Last journal entry: SS
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Age: 49
Posts: 1,095
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 14
Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts
First thing that comes to mind is to ask if you verified #1 piston TDC on compression stroke and then checked that in that crank postion the balancer mark and tab were lined up?

How is the new chain and gear set made to allow advancing the cam? with a multi hole cam gear or with a multi slot crank gear?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2012, 04:04 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 221
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Its a multi keyway on the crank. I took the old timing chain off with the dots lined up at 12 and 6. installed the new chain and sprockets with the cam at 6 and the crank at 12 in the advanced 4 degree slot, engine runs fine but shuts off when the mark on the balancer comes up toward the timing tab.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2012, 04:37 PM
Custom10's Avatar
my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

Last journal entry: SS
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Age: 49
Posts: 1,095
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 14
Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts
You could try and re-establish true TDC and balancer marker/tab oreintaion first
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2012, 05:56 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 221
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ill give that a try. Does it matter that after i replaced the timing chain i put the balancer on with the dots at 12 (crank) and 6 (cam). This would be tdc on cylinder 6 if i'm not mistaken. I wonder if i should have rotated the engine so both dots were at 12 and then installed the balancer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2012, 10:05 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 221
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just checked today and tdc on number 1 cylinder has the balancer mark right at zero, took the distributor cap off and the rotor is also pointing at the number 1 cylinder, yet with the timing light on the mark on the damper is still nowhere near the timing tab? Engine starts and runs well but i would like to be able to time it, confused.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2012, 10:18 AM
Custom10's Avatar
my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

Last journal entry: SS
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Age: 49
Posts: 1,095
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 14
Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts
Start from scratch

Look at the intake valve/push rod as you hand crank the motor over as the intake is closing is the balancer mark coming up on TDC? this will tell you that you are on compression stroke. Where is the dist rotor in this case? pull it out and reset in there if its off.

Base or initial timing is done with vacuum advance (if equipped) disconnected right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2012, 10:31 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 221
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes it has vacuum advance but i pulled the hose and plugged it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2012, 06:50 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 50
Posts: 4,021
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts
Are you 100% sure the timing light is on the #1 cylinder?

sorry, had to ask
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2012, 10:55 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 221
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes front cylinder on the drivers side, i still cant figure it out. It does seem to run ok, maybe i'll just leave it as is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2012, 12:07 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by turchiac
...It does seem to run ok, maybe i'll just leave it as is.
With no idea what the total timing is?

The damper has only one keyway (unless it's been cut for two, like used on some blower engines). That means it cannot be installed incorrectly as far as the TDC line position goes.

I wonder why you advanced the cam in the first place; unless the cam was degreed to know exactly what you had to start with, advancing or retarding the cam is not a good plan.

Anyway, there's an error somewhere.

Rotor phasing and cam ground wrong can be eliminated- engine runs smooth and the last timing set was OK for the timing marks, I'm guessing.

That leaves:

Timing set manufactured wrong. Rare, but has happened.

Timing off wrong wire/wire crossfiring. You can use #6 to time it to see if there's a difference.

Timing set installed one tooth off from perfect/using wrong crank gear keyway. Engine might appear to run OK, although it will not be performing as it should. However this would account for the timing being off as seen w/a timing light, and IMO is the most likely scenario.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2012, 10:18 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 221
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yeah it doesn't drag when i start it, i figure i'll listen and if it doesn't ping when i drive it then i should be ok. It is the stock damper with the one keyway. Engine did run good with last set, just had 1/2" of deflection. The crank gear had only three keyways, retarded straight up and advanced, i put it on advanced 4 degrees. I'll try to time it with the light connected to cylinder 6 as you mentioned and see if that works, Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2012, 02:23 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 221
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I took the chain and timing gear off and installed it straight up, neither advanced or retarded. I then put cylinder one at tdc and went to re install the balancer and it was the same scenario, the indicator on the balancer was at the 5 o'clock position. I bought a new balancer and lined up the key way, and its right where it is suppose to be. The old balancer must have slipped on the rubber ring. Thanks for all the advice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2012, 04:17 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Probably is the case that the ring slipped. I don't know why but it looks like we all missed it or thought the damper was new. Good job.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:32 AM
Custom10's Avatar
my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

Last journal entry: SS
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Age: 49
Posts: 1,095
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 14
Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts
My first/second post, if this procedure was done the slipped balancer would have been obvious at piston #1 true TDC, after the fact
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New motor wont run unless the timing is way advanced z-adamson Engine 18 03-30-2012 04:12 PM
454 timing, help please. jodylawrence66 Engine 42 01-14-2012 12:27 PM
Timing my 454 in need of some help. 454josh Engine 3 06-07-2011 03:15 PM
SBF - Wont run unless timing WAY advanced?? z-adamson Engine 9 01-02-2011 01:11 PM
40 degrees advanced timing to run kleen56 Engine 10 11-08-2010 09:35 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.