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Old 06-14-2006, 08:36 PM
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ADVICE FROM BODy GURUS

Hello,
I recently had my car media blasted and primed it with Transtar self-etching primer here is the data sheet http://www.tat-co.com/datasheets/6111.pdf
I really need advice on what type of body filler to use for the areas I installed patch panels, I am assuming it can't be used over the etching primer so do I have to sand away all the etching primer before I install the filler? Also, what type of primer should I use after the filler is applied to my liking? Basically if the car was yours what steps would you take to get it ready for paint? I already have the Dupont Chroma paint,Cortez Silver, and clearcoat. The body is very solid but there are a lot of dings that need repaired as well as the two small patch panels I installed. I would greatly appreciate any advice!
Thank you

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Old 06-14-2006, 09:02 PM
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I personally think it was a mistake to use self-etching primer after the blasting. Using epoxy primer would have taken care of that part, and should have allowed the application of any needed filler on top of that. It would have also provided a better moisture barrier, in my opinion. You could have used any necessary filler, then a 2K primer, and base on top of that.

JMO

Aaron
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:06 PM
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spray an epoxy primer over the etch, then apply your body filler over the epoxy and you should be good. The problem with self etching primer is that the acid in the etch and polyester filler don't mix. Some brands say its okay to use filler over etch, but many have strict warnings against applying filler over it or the etch over body filler. Now if the etch primer has sat a very long time, you may get away with roughing it up and putting bodyfiller over it, but how long as long enough, and do you want to take the risk of epensive top coats failing due to something going wrong. Epoxy primer will seal it and provide a good base for your body filler. Spray a 2k primer surfacer over the body filler if you need fill for scratches and block sanding. Or you can just sand off the etch wherever you will apply your filler. If the car is blasted, I see no real advantage of using an etch primer. Its purpose is to eat away at minor rust, but if a good job is done blasting the rust should be gone. If the rust is taken care of with the blaster and an epoxy primer is applied right away, shouldn't need etch, and epoxy primer is compatable with just about everything and is an activated product.
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Old 06-15-2006, 05:25 AM
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ADVICE FROM BODy GURUS

Thanks for the advice Kenseth17, I wish I would have not used the etching primer now but that is water under the bridge. How do I need to prep the car prior to spraying the epoxy primer? What type of filler would be the best to use,in your opinion?
thanks
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Old 06-15-2006, 03:31 PM
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I would sand the etch down or rough up good with around 180 grit or so and epoxy prime over it. The epoxy is going to need to be sanded for mechanical adhesion since the etch has sat (over 16 hrs according to your tech sheet) probably past the time to not have to sand. Once you have applyed your epoxy, do any filler work over it the next day. If you apply the filler within the window given for the epoxy you can apply it without sanding the epoxy. I am not sure what the time window is for not having to sand exactly. You may have to see if it says anything at all in the tech sheets for the epoxy for a time. But if just overnight you should be well within the window. Every product is probably going to be a little different. I personally can't get use to applying filler on an unsanded surface so I always rough it up there with 180, it won't hurt anything and its all you have to do if the epoxy is past the window when you apply your filler. It really doesn't take that much to rough it and not have doubts. You can use any body filler you want. If its just real minor fill you may want to consider using a finishing putty or glaze which are normally real easy to sand and work. Ask 10 different body men there favorite body filler and you might get 10 different answers. Many guys like to use rage, easy to spread and sand, but it is pretty pricey compared to a lot of other fillers. Evercoat makes pretty good fillers. I personally have used a few different 3m puttys too, and didn't really care for them. Bondo brand even seems easier to work with to me then the 3m stuff I tried. If you do a search, I bet you will find quite a few threads discussing body filler and what different people prefer.

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Old 06-15-2006, 07:54 PM
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If it were mine I'd sand all the self etch off of the exterior and apply two coats of epoxy, a DA sander with 80 grit and about 4 hours work and it would be pretty much gone. You could scuff the self etch up and apply epoxy directly over the self etch then do any filler work over that but the trouble starts when you get a sanding cut through to the self etch. Any filler in contact with that self etch will liquify the self etch causing it to soak up solvents out of the filler and will hold them there for a long time sometimes causing lifting problems with the epoxy. The whole problem with self etch primers is they are forever soluable-like lacquer. A rag soaked with lacquer thinner will wipe it right off.
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Old 06-15-2006, 08:32 PM
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Thanks Kenseth 17, I appreciate the advice and will surely do what you suggest.
thanks again...
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Old 06-15-2006, 10:10 PM
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Good point bob, didn't think of that. If you really don't want to sand that self etch off, If you cut through the epoxy and into the etch when sanding your filler, I would apply more epoxy over the filler on those spots before applying more. If you apply the filler within the epoxys window then you don't have to scuff up and worry about cutting through.
I don't understand why so many people and dupont push self etch so much. About the only time I've used etch or a metal conditioner a lot is in industrial settings where bare metal isn't sanded (or they got acid dipped) or blasted (blasting gives a good bite to the surface for primer) and a few places I've worked that made aluminum parts all liked to use a self etch on the aluminum. I car was always recommending for bare metal a metal conditoner or self etch followed by epoxy primer. I always felt the etch was an unneccesary step if it was sanded well and clean. Epoxy has good adhesion to bare metal, its basically like a glue, and is more compatable with everything. When cured it will be a barrier against moisture and solvents won't soften it like etch. I haven't used an etch primer in a long time, but most I've used have been really watery thin and easy to run if applyed a little heavy. If the one you used is like what I've used in the past, it really wouldn't take a lot to sand it off like bob said. I know you probably don't want to sand off a product you spent money on, but since its been applied its already taken care of minor rust and etched the surface, both of which werent really needed on a well blasted surface. It has hopefully done its job protecting the surface to this point. I don't see why you would really need to keep it on there if you epoxy primer it right away. The only thing I could see being an advantage if it has zinc in it. I know most epoxy's have taken the zinc out, and I am not sure about self etch, but could be very likely with the regulations today. I did a quick search on etch myself to see if there would be any advantage at all using it under the epoxy that I am unaware of. I came across a kinda interesting article from Icar in my search, but didn't get a chance to read it real closely, It is mainly talking about inside structural parts, but it talks about epoxy, etch, and ecoat and corrosion protection. I don't see how the outside would be much different. Specifically read the short paragraph under self etching primer. Anyways if anyone want the link, its http://www.i-car.com/html_pages/tech.../031504a.shtml
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