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Old 12-20-2012, 12:58 PM
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Advice on evaluating engine condition

Hi,
I'm starting my first engine rebuild and have made a few observations that I'd like some help on. Odometer shows 165K.

First: The cylinders still show cross hatch marks. Can this only mean a recent rebuild, meaning would hatch marks still be visible after that many miles?
Also, connecting rods are numbered. Can this be from factory, or done during the last rebuild.

Second: There is no noticeable ridge at the top of the bore. At least not one I can hook a finger nail on. Can I just re-hone them and call it good? I will have the bore checked at the machine shop and see.

Third: 2 push rods were bent. I'll buy all new push rods. When I removed the rockers, I did not keep them in order. Since I am buying all new push rods, can I put the old rockers back in any order, or do I now have to but new rockers?

Forth: All lifters move freely, what else could have caused the push rods to bend. Timing chain seems like it's loose, but I have no experience to compare that to. Timing gears are lined up. Valve springs seem good and valves are seated properly, no leak test done on them yet.

Thanks

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Old 12-20-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
You will need to measure the bores and see. Sometimes with chevy a quick ball hone and good rings will seat right up. Chevy nore ford number there rods as far as i know are they cast in numbers. Or stamped if stamped or scratched they are surely from a rebuild.

Check the valve trian you should be able to find the reason the push rods bent. I would not reuse the rockers if at all possible cheap roller rocker these days are 50-150 bucks. Worth the money since the rocker is a possible cause of the failure. Are all the studs in good shape no wear or bent broken studs?

Many things can cause the push rods to fail. They are pretty much the weak link. If they were not lined up right they could of moved sideways and bent just from leverage and the springs.
Numbers are stamped. The lifters moved up and down freely, but when I tried to remove them, I had to pound them out. I will go with new lifters, push rods , rockers, cam and valve springs. Replace valves and seats as necessary. No broken studs.
Anthing else?
Thanks
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:20 PM
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No sign of piston to valve contact. Ive not gotten to the heads yet. I will check them tomorrow. The springs seemed good when I hit them with a hammer to check rebound. Valves seem to sit properly against their seats, but I just gave it a cursary glance.

How do I insure oil passages are perfectly clean?

I will replace lifters, push rods, cam, valve springs, rockers, valve seals. I think, because of the cost, I'll repalce valves and seats as necessary. Anything else.

Thanks

Last edited by Infinite Monkeys; 12-20-2012 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:03 PM
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I was thinking about getting this kit:

Link.

Sealed Power/Engine Kit (Master) (MK-6321A) | 1993 Ford F350 1 ton P/U 4WD 8 Cylinders G 7.5L FI | AutoZone.com

Cylinders look good and should clean up by a honing, but won't know for sure till I get it checked.

I was thinking about reusing the head bolts, or is that not good?
I will have the block cleaned at a shop.
Thanks
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Monkeys View Post
Hi,
I'm starting my first engine rebuild and have made a few observations that I'd like some help on. Odometer shows 165K.

First: The cylinders still show cross hatch marks. Can this only mean a recent rebuild, meaning would hatch marks still be visible after that many miles?
Also, connecting rods are numbered. Can this be from factory, or done during the last rebuild.

Second: There is no noticeable ridge at the top of the bore. At least not one I can hook a finger nail on. Can I just re-hone them and call it good? I will have the bore checked at the machine shop and see.

Third: 2 push rods were bent. I'll buy all new push rods. When I removed the rockers, I did not keep them in order. Since I am buying all new push rods, can I put the old rockers back in any order, or do I now have to but new rockers?

Forth: All lifters move freely, what else could have caused the push rods to bend. Timing chain seems like it's loose, but I have no experience to compare that to. Timing gears are lined up. Valve springs seem good and valves are seated properly, no leak test done on them yet.

Thanks
first, you didn't mention what motor you are working on.
small block chev would not have numbers on the rods from the factory, a big block would though.
i wouldn't count on a crosshatch meaning anything. someone could have done a terrible job with rough stones and its still there, or it could mean little wear.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaintoast View Post
first, you didn't mention what motor you are working on.
small block chev would not have numbers on the rods from the factory, a big block would though.
i wouldn't count on a crosshatch meaning anything. someone could have done a terrible job with rough stones and its still there, or it could mean little wear.

It's a Ford 460. My theory is that some one botched up the last rebuild and the engine did not run for long.

Other observation are:
cross threaded spark plug.
2 missing exhaust manifold bolts on the same port and 1 broken bolt on another
engine oil was nasty, maybe they did not replace during break-in
cracked timing chain cover
2 bent push rods
Plus whatever I can find out at the machine shop

So, it's looking like even if it was a recent rebuild, it did not go right and I will recheck and redo. Hopefully I won't screw it up also, this is my first.

Thanks
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Monkeys View Post
It's a Ford 460. My theory is that some one botched up the last rebuild and the engine did not run for long.

Other observation are:
cross threaded spark plug.
2 missing exhaust manifold bolts on the same port and 1 broken bolt on another
engine oil was nasty, maybe they did not replace during break-in
cracked timing chain cover
2 bent push rods
Plus whatever I can find out at the machine shop

So, it's looking like even if it was a recent rebuild, it did not go right and I will recheck and redo. Hopefully I won't screw it up also, this is my first.

Thanks
don't think so.. the fact that the lifters had enough of a film that they needed to be pounded out.. says it was running a good long time..bent pustrods , mostlikely from floating the valves..
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
don't think so.. the fact that the lifters had enough of a film that they needed to be pounded out.. says it was running a good long time..bent pustrods , mostlikely from floating the valves..
I see your point. I also saw incomplete combustion in another cylinder that did not have the bent rods. My guess is that this is also from bad valves.
Does that sound right?

Thanks for your help guys. I'm getting closer to getting it to a machine shop and getting the problems resolved. Again thank you for sticking with me.
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:02 PM
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Off to the machine shop now. See how it goes.
Thanks
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:48 PM
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Advice on evaluating engine condition

The best thing to do is get the block checked out by a machine shop. This way you will know the cylinder size, if lifter bores are ok, clean block, they will take brushes and clean oil galleries. They will check your crank. You can look on back side of bearings to see if they are standard or .010 under. Rods need checked to see if they need resized. I would find another place to shop instead of Auto Zone. Check out this kit from Summit Racing with pistons included are priced better than the kit from Auto Zone. Federal Mogul Premium Engine Rebuild Kits MHP178-300 - SummitRacing.com. Like I said the block needs to checked to know what size pistons and rings, and bearings.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:53 AM
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I'm not a fan of Autozone, But's it's the only store in town. I will go with Summit. The guy at the machine shop is trying to sell my his kit. I'll skip on that.

Thanks
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:32 AM
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Advice on evaluating engine condition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Monkeys View Post
I'm not a fan of Autozone, But's it's the only store in town. I will go with Summit. The guy at the machine shop is trying to sell my his kit. I'll skip on that.

Thanks
You could talk to the machine shop guy and ask him what brand name parts his kit has. Print the Summit Racing kit and show him. Ask him if he can match the price, Sometimes they will work with you. Be sure to talk to him about the right pistons to use, flat top or dished to keep your compression at 9.0. He will have to cc the chambers of your heads. My machinist has been a friend of mine forever, we grew up together in the same neighborhood. He will tell me flat out he can't compete with Summit Racing or Jegs prices. He says buy the parts and bring them in he don't blame me.
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Old 12-23-2012, 12:46 PM
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I don't mean to talk down the machine shop guy. But I've looking over his kit and here it is

Ford V 8 460 7 5L Master Engine Rebuild Kit 1993 1997 | eBay

And he wants $900 for the kit.

Here's one from Summit: Granted it does not include a cam or lifters, but all top name brand stuff for about $200 less. I'd rather spend some extra on name brand stuff. I'll still need to get a cam and a few other thing. I'll ask him if he can match Summit.

Sealed Power MKP6321A-000 - SummitRacing.com

Last edited by Infinite Monkeys; 12-23-2012 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:08 PM
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Kit from Summit is the same as the one from Autozone, just half the price!!!

I also saw some name brand stuff in the ebay kit, but what really turned me off to it was the "DuraBond" Cam bearings. I don't know anything about them, but my general belief is that anything that starts with "Dura....."
Is anything but durable.
(just an opining, not based on any fact)

I looked up the DuraBond bearings and found them in the $15 to $20 range. That's with the seller's mark-up. Now do I really want something like that for cam bearings. If it was a sensor, or something like that, I might get it, but to have to pull and possibly rebuild the engine again is not worth it.
I suppose I could also see if he would replace parts with better quality stuff, but it's not worth the headache and the shop is about 30 miles from my house.

This is what I have for labor:

Clean Block= 95
Seat valves and new exhaust valves= 200
mill head= 50
polish crank= 35
bore block= 200
hang pistons= 45
remove 3 broken exhaust studs= 150

Plus other misc stuff which brings total shop cost to: about $850. Fair enough, in my opinion. Although it is the first time I'm doing this.
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Old 12-23-2012, 03:14 PM
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So, Looks like it's decided. I'm going .030 over. just getting the machine work done now. The shop will also supply new EX valves, seats and reseat all valves, as well as put in new seals. I'll finish assembly with my own kit.

Thanks guys.
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