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Old 12-17-2012, 05:18 AM
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Advice on first engine rebuild

Hi,
I have a 1993 FI, Ford 460 with 165,000 miles on it. (in a F350)
I'm about to dive into to my first complete engine rebuild. I pulled the trany and engine yesterday. The trany will go to a shop to be rebuilt, but I want do most of the engine myself.

I have not pulled the heads yet to see what the cylinders look like.
I'd like to keep it as stock as possible, so it will work with the factory computer. Cheap, power up-grades will be considered, as long as they work with the computer and vehicle remains dependable.

I'd like to take the engine to a machine shop to have it cleaned and resurfaced. For now this is what I'll concentrate on.

I am looking for advice on how to go about doing it. My question is what should I get done professionally, at the shop. ie, freeze plugs, cam bushings. Or just have the crank and cam professionally installed.

What am I most likely to screw up?


I will be getting a factory service manual to guide me along. What special tools should I get?

Thanks
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:38 AM
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Your questions could fill a book. For that reason I would suggest you look into a Ford-specific rebuild book to compliment the factory manual. The factory manual will have all the necessary info, but they often refer to factory tools and procedures that are a bit different from what the average shop or backyard mechanic would use. I have no experience w/the books listed below, but you can research that yourself it you consider getting one of them.

The more you do before taking the parts in, the cheaper the bill will be. For instance if you take the pistons/rods and crank out of the block, it will be cheaper for inspection/cleaning. Take the freeze plugs out yourself. Leave the cam bearings alone and only replace them if they're ruined in the hot tank or are excessively worn. If this engine only has 165K and had the stock cam and valve springs in it and was maintained well (oil/filter changes), they might still be fine.

If you have a cylinder head rebuilding shop in your area like National Cylinder Head, they do a decent job. You can ask for your same heads back (mark them w/an ID stamp and tell/show them the ID), and they also have a "high performance" option that (among other things- check w/them for details) uses a cutter that removes most of the factory ridge/lip from under the seats. Or, if you have the tools, etc. you can do this yourself w/sanding rolls. Remove all sharp edges that could glow red hot and cause preignition. Polishing is not necessary.

Pay attention to the quench measurement. Often a different head gasket thickness is all that's needed to dial it in.

Ford used a timing set w/retarded cam timing at one time. I don't know if they still did in '93, but be sure the timing set you use is straight up, not retarded.

General rebuild info

Books:
How To Rebuild BIG-BLOCK FORD ENGINES How To Rebuild BIG-BLOCK FORD ENGINES


How to Rebuild Ford V-8 Engines

Ford 460 engine- Used books
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:48 AM
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I can take it down to a bare block and disassemble the heads. I can put the heads back together. I'll skip the 3 angle valve job.

I can size and install the piston rings. Mostly, I'm worried about the getting the exact fitments of the crank and cam correct.
And I'll get one of those books.

I would guess the engine has not seen regular maintenance. #1 spark plug was cross threaded and #5 has no compression, bottom is covered in oil.
I was considering one of these kits depending on what I find.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...58343%2C141151


http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...63_7249_115335

Thanks

Last edited by Infinite Monkeys; 12-17-2012 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:12 AM
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Before you buy a SINGLE part, ber suire what condition the engine is in. At the risk of sounding insensitive, what you WANT to spend is of no concern. There are several things that MUST be addressed if the engine is to "live". Old saying: "Why, if there's not enough time or money to do it "right" the first time, is there ALWAYS enough to do it again?

Zero compression usually means a burned valve. "Three angle valve job" is among the most abused and misunderstood terms in this hobby. If your local machine shop uses that term, they're probably "behind the times" or don't fully understand what they're doing. What WAS known as "three angle valve job" in the '60s is today called "competitiion valve grind" and entails a WHOLE lot more than just three angles on the seat. In fact, a "three angle valve job" is really a "stock" valve job on a small block Chevy... But I digress. You NEED a valve job. With a burned valve, this is a fact, not an opinion. The head with the burned valve needs to be checkld very closely for cracks, particularly around the offending seat. If the heads have more than .005" "warp", they need to be resurfaced.

If your block has ANY "ridge" at the top of the bore (you can hang you fingernail on it), it needs to be bored. Any more than .005" "taper" or "out of round" in the cylinders can cause new rings to not "seat". Pistons will be "slapping" around in there, too.

Crank journals must be polished (minimum) and measured. If more than .001" tapered or out of round, it needs to be ground.

Rebuilding a 460 Ford is NOT just throwing a set of rings a a new oil pump in it and "go".

There several cam companies that can supply a "computer compatible" grind that will improve response and torque.

Jim
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. P-Body View Post
Before you buy a SINGLE part, ber suire what condition the engine is in. At the risk of sounding insensitive, what you WANT to spend is of no concern. There are several things that MUST be addressed if the engine is to "live". Old saying: "Why, if there's not enough time or money to do it "right" the first time, is there ALWAYS enough to do it again?

Zero compression usually means a burned valve. "Three angle valve job" is among the most abused and misunderstood terms in this hobby. If your local machine shop uses that term, they're probably "behind the times" or don't fully understand what they're doing. What WAS known as "three angle valve job" in the '60s is today called "competitiion valve grind" and entails a WHOLE lot more than just three angles on the seat. In fact, a "three angle valve job" is really a "stock" valve job on a small block Chevy... But I digress. You NEED a valve job. With a burned valve, this is a fact, not an opinion. The head with the burned valve needs to be checkld very closely for cracks, particularly around the offending seat. If the heads have more than .005" "warp", they need to be resurfaced.

If your block has ANY "ridge" at the top of the bore (you can hang you fingernail on it), it needs to be bored. Any more than .005" "taper" or "out of round" in the cylinders can cause new rings to not "seat". Pistons will be "slapping" around in there, too.

Crank journals must be polished (minimum) and measured. If more than .001" tapered or out of round, it needs to be ground.

Rebuilding a 460 Ford is NOT just throwing a set of rings a a new oil pump in it and "go".

There several cam companies that can supply a "computer compatible" grind that will improve response and torque.

Jim
Good stuff. Thanks
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:48 AM
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first thing BEFORE you touch a bolt..
go to sears or any tool place and get a numbered punch set.. or at least a small metal chissle.. so you can number the rod and caps. and main caps
you must do this.. they must go back in the same rod and on the same way (not reverced)
same with the main caps....
get a book on basic rebuilding on the 460 and read it.. then reread it..
your local library most likely has books on this...
even if it's for a chevy it'll give you the basic untill the ford book shows up from amazon/etc
I'd not turn a bolt untill I read the book twice.. and ahd it on hand to look through when your "not sure"
when I did my first build.. it didn't go well as I didn't read up first.. I unbolted that pontiac 326 and well.. it cost more to build because of little mistakes... (like the numbering of the rod/main caps)
I learnt the hard way (wallet).. read up first..
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:02 AM
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Books are on the way.
I'll start by removing and disassembling the heads. I'll be sure to keep the valves in order. I'll buy new springs and seals. At least one chamber will need new valves and seats.
Will wait for the books before getting into the bottom end.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:58 AM
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what I would do,especially on a ford: and I will speak in generalities:

take the block into a very good machine shop,to get very good machine work,
clean and check block
decide what it needs
if it is getting bored,then buy quality replacement pistons,when you have the pistons in hand!
then,,,bore/square/deck/align hone block to perfectly fit the pistons,measure each piston separately,bore and deck to fit perfectly.
balance the rotating assembley,,,yes balance,,, buy a quality blue printed replacement cam. If the machine shop gets this perfect,let them do the heads too.If you change any cams specs,the exhaust side needs help
standard blue print assembley
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:26 AM
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We (engine builders) quit using marking punches a long time ago... Today, we use an electric engraving tool. "Punching" a part displaces" metal, engraving does not.

Ford engines have big numbers on the main caps already. MANY I"ve opened up already had rosd "marked" too. Fords are "numbered" differently than GM and Chrysler, too, so be aware.

No need to keep valves "in order". All must be ground or replaced. Stems should be polished and guides honed. "Stem height" is critical on this engine when using "stock" rockers (non-adjustable).

John Kasse is considered the "authority" on the big Ford these days.

FWIW

Jim
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:53 PM
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How well does a valve lapper work. Can I also put the valve in a drill and spin it back and forth a few times?

That is if the seats are good.

And guys, I paid $1,000 for this truck. Body is good, but the engine has issues. Right now I don't want a pavement ripper, just looking to learn how to rebuild an engine and as cheaply as possible, but to factory specs.

Thanks

Last edited by Infinite Monkeys; 12-17-2012 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Monkeys View Post
I can take it down to a bare block and disassemble the heads. I can put the heads back together. I'll skip the 3 angle valve job.

I can size and install the piston rings. Mostly, I'm worried about the getting the exact fitments of the crank and cam correct.
And I'll get one of those books.

I would guess the engine has not seen regular maintenance. #1 spark plug was cross threaded and #5 has no compression, bottom is covered in oil.
I was considering one of these kits depending on what I find.

Sealed Power/Engine Kit (Master) (MK-6321A) | 1993 Ford F350 1 ton P/U 4WD 8 Cylinders G 7.5L FI | AutoZone.com


Sealed Power/Re-Ring Engine Kit (205-6321M) | 1993 Ford F350 1 ton P/U 4WD 8 Cylinders G 7.5L FI | AutoZone.com

Thanks
Northern has decent name brand parts in their rebuild kits and are about $100 less than AZ: Ford 460

You can opt for moly rings, different gasket brand (the ROL gaskets they supply in some kits are actually pretty good), different cam, etc. at added cost. Their reasonable, though. I have used them for SBC master kits since the kits were $145.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:27 PM
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After considering the time and expense and margin for error of this project, I think I'd shop for a low-miles long block or short block from a boneyard.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:52 PM
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or if the engine still runs,take it apart and only replace items that have to be replaced,gaskets and timing chain,,,,,,,,,and,,,
back yard freshen
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
After considering the time and expense and margin for error of this project, I think I'd shop for a low-miles long block or short block from a boneyard.
If I did that, I'd never learn to do it myself. Plus, a 460 is a cool engine (my first big block) and worth rebuilding. Who knows, it might end up in some other project down the road.
Thanks

Last edited by Infinite Monkeys; 12-17-2012 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:56 PM
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or if the engine still runs,take it apart and only replace items that have to be replaced,gaskets and timing chain,,,,,,,,,and,,,
back yard freshen
It still runs, the issues (without taking the heads off) are a stripped plug hole, leaking oil pan gasket, which is not replaceable with out removing the engine in this truck and no compression in one cylinder, possible valve issue. I was going to just remove the heads and fix the valve leak and the plug threads. That was 2 days ago. Now the engine is sitting in my garage, waiting for a cheapo rebuild.
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