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Old 06-16-2008, 08:53 PM
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AFR 195CC Head install HELP

I am installing a pair of AFR 195cc heads and was advised to remove one of the valve springs during break in. The installed cam ( Comps XE270HR)is fairly new with about 1200 miles on it. Please advise whether you think this is a requirement to remove one of these springs for break in. I am also installing a new set of roller lifters at the same time. Do you thinlk I will need to change push rods as well.

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Old 06-16-2008, 09:38 PM
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You can also get 1.3 (?) ratio rockers for break-in!

Just a thought.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:01 PM
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AFR recommends Fel-Pro p/n 1003 for gaskets with these heads. This gasket is .041 thick and my pistons are .025 in the hole giving me insufficient quench. Has anyone used Fel-Pro p/n 1094. This gasket is .015 and will give me quench of .040.
My question is will this gasket work with this head, that being AFR Eliminator 195cc with 64cc chambers.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:19 PM
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This may help:

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61058
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
I am installing a pair of AFR 195cc heads and was advised to remove one of the valve springs during break in. The installed cam ( Comps XE270HR)is fairly new with about 1200 miles on it. Please advise whether you think this is a requirement to remove one of these springs for break in. I am also installing a new set of roller lifters at the same time. Do you thinlk I will need to change push rods as well.
Wait a while. Your cam is a hydraulic roller, what are you breaking in? As far as pushrods go, you absolutely must check the geometry for the correct length.
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Old 06-17-2008, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regal Beagle
AFR recommends Fel-Pro p/n 1003 for gaskets with these heads. This gasket is .041 thick and my pistons are .025 in the hole giving me insufficient quench. Has anyone used Fel-Pro p/n 1094. This gasket is .015 and will give me quench of .040.
My question is will this gasket work with this head, that being AFR Eliminator 195cc with 64cc chambers.
Regal since these are rubber coated there may or may not be a reaction between the 2 metals. They are racing gaskets though which means they're usually not left on too long because of refreshing the motor. The 2 dissimilar metals can eat away at each other. That's why composition gaskets are recommended for iron block and aluminum heads. For a daily driver I don't know if I'd use them or not without some type of sacrificial anode in the cooling system. Maybe OldBogie will chime in with some words of wisdom.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:43 AM
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leave the springs in place.

you have a roller cam, so no break in required.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:11 PM
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Wow I am amazed, I was just about to post this exact same question and then I looked and it was just posted lol! I have the same heads and am about to do my break-in any day now but I wasn't aware about this spring thing. My springs are at 120 lbs. seated. I have a hydraulic valvetrain and I have already gone through and adjusted all my pre-loads on the lifters and tighted down all the rockers. I applied a **** load of the moly lobe paste to each and every love and lifter bottom. Question is, will I be alright without removing the inner springs for break-in (something I really don't want to do). I am adding ZDDP to the oil for a good break-in for the cam. Please advise me if I should be ok to go ahead with it alreay set up.

Thanks,
Keith
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regal Beagle
AFR recommends Fel-Pro p/n 1003 for gaskets with these heads. This gasket is .041 thick and my pistons are .025 in the hole giving me insufficient quench. Has anyone used Fel-Pro p/n 1094. This gasket is .015 and will give me quench of .040.
My question is will this gasket work with this head, that being AFR Eliminator 195cc with 64cc chambers.
I don't know who started this thing about .040 quench, good quench is necessary but .040 inch isn't.

First to get good quench, you need a modern head like a Vortec style chamber where a beak projects between the intake and exhaust valve and the sparkplug is located as close to the center of the chamber as possible, this is close to an ideal configuration as possible for the Gen I SBC with a 23 degree head, it's also suitable for an 18 or 15 degree head, it does not work as well for the Gen III engine.

The next most beneficial thing is a "D" shaped dish piston if a dish is required. This puts the volume under the valves where initial burn is quickly accomplished. The flat surface of the piston works with the shape of the head's squish/quench deck to improve both functions compared to a circular dish piston. A clearance between these decks from .040 to .060 is plenty sufficient, clearances wider than .080 begin to loose effectively, but dyno testing done by Chevy High Performance magazine clearly shows the effect remains faily good with modern design small chamber heads over a circular dish piston up to about 9.5 to 1 compression.

Your gasket of .041 and deck clearance of .015 makes .056 which is plenty effective.

The head gasket should be a composition type, the cast iron block and aluminum heads have considerable differences in thermal expansion rates. If a shim style steel gasket is used, the gasket will cut into the head material by a process called fretting, this will lead to coolant, oil, and compression leaks and has the potential to damage the head material beyond the possibility of repair. A multi-layered composition gasket allows the block and head to move independently getting around this problem to a large extent.

Bogie
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:28 PM
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That gasket is fine for use with aluminum heads and an iron block. Assuming you are not putting these on a 400. Follow the install directions and I'll leave it up to you to determine if your deck is flat although I have seen them work fine on original blocks.

You don't need to do a thing with the springs. There is nothing to break in with your combo.
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:29 PM
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OldBogie, any thoughts on my question (don't mean to steal the thread)
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:10 PM
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Take the inners out.
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick WI
Take the inners out.
Bump, Better safe than sorry.
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
I don't know who started this thing about .040 quench, good quench is necessary but .040 inch isn't.

First to get good quench, you need a modern head like a Vortec style chamber where a beak projects between the intake and exhaust valve and the sparkplug is located as close to the center of the chamber as possible, this is close to an ideal configuration as possible for the Gen I SBC with a 23 degree head, it's also suitable for an 18 or 15 degree head, it does not work as well for the Gen III engine.

The next most beneficial thing is a "D" shaped dish piston if a dish is required. This puts the volume under the valves where initial burn is quickly accomplished. The flat surface of the piston works with the shape of the head's squish/quench deck to improve both functions compared to a circular dish piston. A clearance between these decks from .040 to .060 is plenty sufficient, clearances wider than .080 begin to loose effectively, but dyno testing done by Chevy High Performance magazine clearly shows the effect remains faily good with modern design small chamber heads over a circular dish piston up to about 9.5 to 1 compression.

Your gasket of .041 and deck clearance of .015 makes .056 which is plenty effective.

The head gasket should be a composition type, the cast iron block and aluminum heads have considerable differences in thermal expansion rates. If a shim style steel gasket is used, the gasket will cut into the head material by a process called fretting, this will lead to coolant, oil, and compression leaks and has the potential to damage the head material beyond the possibility of repair. A multi-layered composition gasket allows the block and head to move independently getting around this problem to a large extent.

Bogie
My pistons are .025 in the hole plus the .041 gasket giving quench of .066.
Is this still a reasonable number? The AFR tech line recommended .035-.045 quench.
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