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Old 11-01-2004, 07:52 AM
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AFR heads, 180cc or 195cc

Im getting ready to purchase a set of AFR SBC heads and i cant decide which to go with. The 180cc intake runners or the 195cc runners. Im wanting to get as much power and torque as i can with my application. Especially by 2500 rpm, since that is the approximate stall of the torque converter. here are the current engine specs

355
10.1 compression with 64cc combustion chambers
forged crank
forged pistons
a lunati 292 (230 at .050) duration cam
.480 lift with 1.5 rockers, .512 with 1.6 (im running 1.6)
edelbrock rpm air gap intake
speed demon 750 carb

I know the smaller intake runner gives more velocity, but my main rpm range with be between 2000 and 6500, and i want as much torque and horsepower as i can get at 2500 rpms. I need all the help i can get, thanks for any suggestions.

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Old 11-01-2004, 08:06 AM
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180cc or 190cc will work just fine. 180's will be a bit better off the bottom and 190's will give you room to grow in the future.

Larry
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Old 11-01-2004, 09:29 AM
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Without a doubt, I would go with the 195's. The 195 matches your estimated power range much better, and like cold said, if you ever want to go with a 383, or something more radical, the 180s wouldent match at all.

Adam
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Old 11-01-2004, 01:49 PM
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Go 195 as was said it will give you more room to grow. If you look at what AFR has to say about them it states they are good for a 350 to 400 block. I plan on building my 383 and the heads should give me the nice low end im looking for. I just ordered my set of AFR heads last thur. and have to wait 6-7 weeks but man will I be happy and either one of the heads will be much better over the stock heads. I agree with future growth in mind go with the 195's besides if you ever wanted to sell them more people are going to be looking for 195 heads then the 180.


Chris
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Old 11-01-2004, 01:58 PM
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I'm planning on ordering a set of AFR heads also. Is it best to order directly from the factory or buy localy? Time isn't an issue...

Sean
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Old 11-01-2004, 02:10 PM
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Well I can tell you this if you buy a set of heads go with one of their dis. that is listed at the site. Call and talk to the place and find out if they are helpfull (your going to want someone who is willing to help you out) if you like the place they can place an order for you directly to AFR. Almost no one has them in stock anymore so all orders have to wait in line. A + with going to a dis. is that most of the time they pay shipping ($40) and some even have lower prices then AFR sells them. In anycase when you order from a dis. they will place the order with AFR and AFR will ship them right to your door step. Hope this helps.


Chris
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Old 11-01-2004, 04:08 PM
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I agree with what is already being said here. With your compression, cam and rpm range go with the 195's without a doubt.

As for ordering them for sure go with someone other than AFR. Just like any company out there if you order from a distributor instead yer sure to save a few bucks(incentive for distributors to sell them in the first place right). If you'd like a recommendation try Mike Lewis(aka Wolfplace at www.teamchevelle.com in the performance forum) of Lewis Racing Engines . He has a great reputation and can give you a great deal! I got my heads(AFR 195's) from him and I'm pretty froogal Keep in mind that there are places out there that sell the heads $100-200 cheaper but they arn't using the AFR build hardware. They just buy the heads bare and strap on some jap crap to complete the head. Feel free to tell him Justin from Ontario or RegaMaro sent ya. He'll actually just have the heads drop shipped straight from AFR at a better price than AFR can give you.
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Old 11-01-2004, 06:53 PM
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Cool

I was told by Jim McFarland (dyno guru and contributing editor to the car mags) that the 180 cc heads are the latest and greatest design and outperform the 195 cc heads. He said the 195 cc heads are excellent but they are AFR's old design and the 180's are the way to go, especially for a street engine. Just thought you might like input.
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Old 11-01-2004, 07:25 PM
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According to flow charts on the AFR site, the 180 flows within 5cfm of the 195 at all lift points, & matches it at some. And the smaller intake port will have better speed. Also, the 195's intake port is designed for a single-plane intake manifold with a slightly taller port, whereas the 180's is not.
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Old 11-03-2004, 04:45 AM
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So your saying to go with the 180 runners even on a 383 or 400 becuase there isn't much difference in overall flow, and the 180's have better intake velocity.... on the bigger motors would we extra flow ?
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Old 11-03-2004, 06:45 AM
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definitely go with the 195s for future mods, but be aware, you will be waiting 8 to 10 weeks for the heads unless the place you buy them from happens to have a few sets in stock. If you have to get them ordered from AFR, you will have to wait. But I must say, what they promise is worth the wait. As i'm almost finished with my motor, and then i'll come back and let you know how they run
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Old 11-03-2004, 09:02 AM
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I kept reading on the net about this so called 8 week wait for the heads from AFR but I got mine within 4. It's not all the heads that you have to wait a long time for. I think that rumour started due to a delay with some big block heads awhile back. Call AFR or contact Mike Lewis through the link above I gave to find out.
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Old 11-03-2004, 09:37 AM
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I would still go with the 195 heads. On a 355, you may get a little more torque out of the 180s, but overal hp will probably go to the 195's. Although on a 350, there isnt much difference between a 180 and a 195, on a 383 or 400, the bigger ports of the 195s are necessery to get rpm above around 5500 out of it. I havent seen a whole lot of tests done on the 180s, but I have on the 195s and they put up some pretty amazing numbers. If you look at the recommendations from AFR, they recommend the 180 head for a 327-350 from idle to 5500 RPM. The 195 is recommended for a 350-400 2000-6500 RPM. I think on a 383 or 400 the 195's would match quite a bit better.

Adam
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Old 11-03-2004, 01:41 PM
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It's true what was said about not all heads being such a long wait. I was told me heads would take 6-7 weeks 195 ,74cc straight plugs without heat riser. Once you order them they will give you a VERY general indea of the timeline. After about 2-3 weeks they should be able to give you a good bet as to when it will be done. I have talked to a few dis. and they all say that AFR is stacked up solid with work and it seemed that a few thought it gets a little worse around this time of year. HOWEVER! everyone of the shops I talked to ALL said that the heads are by far worth the wait hands down.


Chris
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Old 11-03-2004, 03:07 PM
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I think you would be beter off with a 180cc runner on a 350/355. Most street 383's will be fine with 180cc heads. Bigger is not better. You have to look at the whole picture. The loss in velocity with the larger heads on a small engine is going to outweigh anything you "might" gain up top. You need all the torque you can get. If you were building a 12.5:1 solid roller drag engine then the larger heads would be a better choice. If the flow numbers are as close as mentioned above you will be much better off with the slammer heads. Port size and flow numbers only tell part of the story.

Maybe if you tell us what the goals/use of the car are that could help with a more educated advice. What kind of car (how heavy), rear gears. Since you are running a dual plane intake that tells me you were looking for torque not high RPM horsepower. If you have doubts call AFR and see what they suggest to you. 180cc is plenty big enought to support all but the most radical 350.

Royce
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