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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2008, 12:44 PM
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I think you have been looking in all the WRONG places.......

If you want SOUND advice, then stop searching these forums and buy yourself a good book written on the subject in question. Look, I like to snoop around on this and many other sites, but I'm always surprised when other ask very specific and potentially damaging questions, to others like my self on forums like this. Yes, these places are great for general knowledge, and a great way to pass the time, BUT, And I DO Mean BUT, there is no guarantee that the advice you seek is correct. Also, there is no guarantee that the person answering your question has any true experience at all. These places are for fun only, and I would NEVER, NEVER base anything said on here as the truth, Gospel, correct, or a fact. If you want good, solid information, written by someone with credentials, then go do yourself a favor and buy a book based on your dilemma. It's absolutely stupid to base anything said on these site as a fact, I cringe every time someone ask a specific torque valve or other vital measurement. It's up to you to abtain the correct information for your engine build, and this is not the place to obtain that. There Are litterly dozens of books written on the small block Chevy engine, and if your engine isn't worth the $15.00-20.00 a good performance oriented book sells for, then either you shouldn't complain about bad advice or you shouldn't be trying to build an engine on your own.

There are some here that definitely know there stuff, but there are just as many or even more that haven't a clue, they hang out on these forums because they are really dip ****s and couldn't spin a wrench if there life depended on it. The problem with people like you is, you can't discern the difference between the smart one and the stupid one, and that makes all information received here bogus and un-useful.
Take this information as you might, but it's probably the only totally truthful information you have received. Like I said, I to like to bum around here and other sites, but only as an amusement. When I have real questions, questions that matter, I go to a book, where I know the author has credentials and a reputation. Good Luck

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2008, 02:09 PM
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I glossed over the thread and I agree with what people are saying about timing. 60 degrees is a ton, sounds like too much. What distributor are you using? Have you tried just messing with the curve a little bit?

Stall converter is a must if you don't have one, second best bang for the buck conversion (first is gears).

Another problem is that I believe I read you switched to aluminum heads. Aluminum heads act like a heat sink, and you have to run more compression to get the same heat into your fuel. The normal conversion is about 1 "point" of compression. So 9:1 with an iron head = 8:1 with an aluminum head. There's a misconception that aluminum lets you run more compression safely. Actually, aluminum demands you run more compression because aluminum is much less dense heat diffuses through it much more quickly.

I think your biggest problem is compression at this point. I don't see an easy fix for that, be a shame to mill those nice new heads, and I don't know how that will affect your burn (others may have more info).

Best of luck-

K
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2008, 02:30 PM
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I would work on the tune of the ignition and carb. It can make huge differences.

I would first set the timing at 20 initial and 36 total. Your distributor is adjustable so you should be able to set it up this way easily. use light springs but not so light that the timing doesn't come back at idle.

Then I would add another 15 degrees with the vacuum advance. try it on the ported source (no vacuum at idle) and on a manifold source and see which one works the best. When you plug in on a manifold source, it will add the timing at idle (20 + 15 = 35) and increase the idle speed so you will need to turn it down.

next, I would throw away that carb and get a simple 3310 750 holley. But since you already have that edelbrock carb, try richen up the main and secondary metering and see if the engine likes it. A little trial an error goes a long way.

also believe it or not, spinning a 3.73 gear with LSD can be tougher than spinning a 3.07 lsd gear. Especially with a slower revving engine more set up for torque.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2008, 09:39 PM
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OK so your engine is not perfect, it will not make internet people happy. But you can make it work, it sounds to me like you just need to tune it. Start with the timing, 454c10 says 20 initial and 36 total. What is your initial timing at now? You need a lot of initial timing and limited mechanical advance when the compression is lower. You should take care of that first.

Another thing I didn't see anyone mention, you can have too much timing and no pinging at the expense of reduced horsepower. If your engine likes lots of timing at low rpm see above and recurve that distributor.

Next on the the list is that 1406. This carb can be adjusted to work well but out of the box it barely ran on my engine. Take out the primary metering rods (just two screws on top of the carb, easy). See what they are then look in your kit and try dropping in a set of rods one step richer. This will only take you 5-10 minutes. Also look closely at your accel pump, make sure there is no slack in the linkage. There is more than one hole to put the linkage rod in, try the other hole. With the air cleaner off take a peek down your carb and nudge the throttle a little bit, you want it to start squirting right away. If it doesn't start squirting immediatly you need the bend the linkage.

Last on my list is your stall converter. When you floor it from a stop does it flash to 2500? 3000 would be better honestly.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2008, 12:23 PM
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Update

So I decided to tear into her again .... I am at 4.030 bore, .031 down in the hole, the timing tab was about 12* OFF (***????), but on the bright side, now I will have about .046 quench, and 9.4:1 compression with new head gasket .... timing will be much closer to what is expected and hopefully I will be on the road in a day or two for a dyno run to see what she is setup for!

For all you guys that gave advice to help out your fellow man - I THANK YOU!!!

I have two children in armed forces (one going to Iraq in a few months), served myself in the Navy and am proud to be an American!!!!

Tom
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2008, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomard
So I decided to tear into her again .... I am at 4.030 bore, .031 down in the hole, the timing tab was about 12* OFF (***????), but on the bright side, now I will have about .046 quench, and 9.4:1 compression with new head gasket .... timing will be much closer to what is expected and hopefully I will be on the road in a day or two for a dyno run to see what she is setup for!

For all you guys that gave advice to help out your fellow man - I THANK YOU!!!

I have two children in armed forces (one going to Iraq in a few months), served myself in the Navy and am proud to be an American!!!!

Tom
You state that the timing tab is "off about 12 degrees". I will bet it is the balancer, not the timing tab that is off.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2008, 01:18 PM
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Nope - my balancer also has a VERTICAL TDC line, that sits at exactly 12oclock - and the 0* is at 2oclock together with the crank key!!!
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomard
Nope - my balancer also has a VERTICAL TDC line, that sits at exactly 12oclock - and the 0* is at 2oclock together with the crank key!!!
Is your timing tab adjustable?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2008, 03:15 PM
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It is now
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2008, 06:56 PM
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dyno

Good Luck ,Let us know how it is on dyno.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2008, 08:26 PM
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Yes Sir!

I will surely do that!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2008, 09:53 PM
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I would:

mill the 65cc heads to 59cc-60cc and reinstall with a .015" shim gasket
10:1 cr. (retorque after initial heat cycle)
You could/should have factory ordered your AFR cylinder heads finished to 59-60cc direct from AFR ( for a low nominal cost) to give the right cr with your dished pistons.

The converter stall is way too low. 3500 stall best. You need a 245MM converter case size. if you are working with a modified (restalled) stock diameter torque converter, don't expect much out of it. "restalling" a stock GM overdrive converter, (the cheap method) raises the stall speed but cuts efficientcy and torque multiplication at launch. You get what you pay for when it comes to the restalled GM OD converters. (th200r4 and th700r4)
if you want the real deal in a OD converter that will nail you to the seat on launch, get a 245MM custom lock up true 3500 stall converter from :

http://www.converter.cc/
or
http://www.converter.com/

The gear is too low for that combo with 27.1" tall tires.
shorter 26" tires (P235-60-15) or swap to a 4.10 ratio. Changing the tires is easiest.

Recurve the distributor for 24 base initial at idle and a short curve to 34-36deg
max (short 12deg advance curve)
Then find true TDC and set the spark timing accuratly.

Move the camshaft to a 104 intake centerline. (more low/mid torque)
(degree the camshaft and move it as required)

Should be using a 750cfm carb. (if you want power)
Make these changes and you'll get the effect you were expecting and a bit more.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 10-29-2008 at 09:59 PM.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2008, 07:24 AM
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Ok - now I am getting somewhere

Ok, so I have now replaced head gasket ..... now I am looking like this, compression wise 9.39:1, burns out with everything else as I indicated in orig post. Has lots much power & pull.

My dilemma is this (and quite possibly because of my quick ramp selected cam that I have and don't really want to change it), is with Timing!!!!

The way I am setup now and I got it started after gasket change, my timing is WAY advanced, BUT NO PINGING!

I am thinking that maybe, I could change my weight springs, so timing wouldn't come in as early???? To do that should it be heavier springs?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2008, 07:32 AM
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You want your timing to come in early. You just need to limit total advance to 34 degrees. and probably 18 initial or so, which leaves 17 mechanical. I'd run vacuum advance too, but that's a seperate issue.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2008, 08:25 AM
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I will run vacuum advance, but for setting the timing, I block off vacuum to canister .....

Where it "feels" like motor is running best, starts right up & turns off w/o any sputter, I am really high .... idles at almost 30* ..... I thought my timing tab was off or new balancer slipped, but I verified both when heads where off

Then we I am going all in (still w/o can attached) I am around 50*, then hook up the can, take her out and give her some hard accelleration and EXPECT it to PING like a golf club, but IT DOESN'T .....

Runs rather well

Come to think of it ..... now I am grasping, but "could" I have had wrong size balancer on it originally, and replaced it with wrong size as well?? It is a 6.75"
diameter Professional Products 80000 .... would it make difference if maybe it was suppose to be an 8" (and of course different tab as well)????
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