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Old 11-18-2005, 01:00 PM
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Aftermarket EFI ?

Hi all,

I want to know what you are thinking about Aftermarket EFI for Small block Chevy ?

I'm looking into this then need more info & comment of what you know & what is existing... I have currently looked at F.A.s.T & Edelb. Pro tuner EFI system that look nice too..

This will be to put on my 410sbc whit F1 procharger & NOS.
Since i know very little about those system i want every comment before doing any move further.

Thanks.

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Old 11-18-2005, 01:22 PM
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What is your price range?

Do you want a turnkey package; or will you piece together intake, injectors, manifold, harness, ECM, etc.?

Ed
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Old 11-18-2005, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edge
What is your price range?

Do you want a turnkey package; or will you piece together intake, injectors, manifold, harness, ECM, etc.?

Ed
hi ed,
Price range... Hmm let tell i can spend around 5000-6000$, that already a lot i think.

Turnkey, may be , or may be not, for sure turnkey are probably the better option i think, i want the best i can afford & someting i can program via a laptop (i have already my laptop).

ps: an what the diff. bettwen sequential or bank-to-bank injection ?
Sequential apear to be better ?
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Old 11-18-2005, 01:49 PM
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Turn key, I think not. Your intake and fueling setup will be total custom.

For your application your only reasonable choice is EFI. It will control the fueling under boost and also with the nitrous. The new Edelbrock system is nice but the last I heard it's not ready for sale yet. That was as of this summer. When or if it's ready it would be a nice system, although its new.

We are a FAST dealer so I'm biased for sure but I upgraded the the new FAST system a couple of weeks ago and don't see growing of that system anytime soon. The FAST system is very robust, easy to tune, has tons of options standard, and has an extreme amount of room to grow in the future via internet download upgrades. Datalogging is excellent as well. I ran the old FAST system for 5 years without a hiccup. Either verison will work fine with a blown application but there is no reason to not use the XFI system, it's that much better. About $2200 with harness but without sensor package.
Try to buy it from a dealer close to you if possible just in case you have some questions, which you will.

Accel's system is kind of a pain to tune but also very stout, the Big Stuff system is nice as well and would work for you.

The nice thing about the FAST system is there is tons of support on the web for it, the customer service is excellent and it is a proven, reliable system with a framework built around expansion in the future. Oh, did I mention it's easy to tune.

Holley's Pro system is also nice. Doug, at Holley, is very supportive of the system for technical questions.

Given your blown application as well as desire to run nitrous you are going to want a system that runs sequential injection. You are going to need big injectors to feed this and sequential will make it much easier to tune at idle and low speeds.

Your budget number is right in there for what you'll end up spending on injectors, an intake, fuel rails, plumbing, regulator, pump and so forth.

Also, whoever you buy the system from order the sensors from them as well, water, map, tps, iat and so forth. The system will then be easily configured to these. It will make your life much simpler. Be sure to tell them you will run nitrous as for some systems are plug in harness to the main harness can be ordered for ease of wiring.
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Old 11-18-2005, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x007
ps: an what the diff. bettwen sequential or bank-to-bank injection ?
Sequential apear to be better ?
I know that FSI (fully sequential injection) shoots at each cylinder individually. Batched Fire Injection is in groups of 2. I hear FSI is more tunable, not really sure though.
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Old 11-18-2005, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick WI
Turn key, I think not. Your intake and fueling setup will be total custom.

For your application your only reasonable choice is EFI. It will control the fueling under boost and also with the nitrous. The new Edelbrock system is nice but the last I heard it's not ready for sale yet. That was as of this summer. When or if it's ready it would be a nice system, although its new.

We are a FAST dealer so I'm biased for sure but I upgraded the the new
its nice you can bring me more info then

1 thing that i have read that bug me is fast apear to use only 1 oxygen sensor, is still the case now ? I'm trying to understand how the system work but miss info. i'm still looking to find more info on the net..

Let assume i go for the XFi, what i would need exactly ?
Do you have any part # ?
What injector type/size, harness etc.. ?

I know i have to change my fuel pump for an EFI, may be aeromotive pro series (#11102) , also a boost referenced EFI regulator also aeromotive (#13110) (mine goes only to 40psi), may be a vistor intake that look nice to ?

Also i will probably order it online in US somewhere .. Noting near me anyway..
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Old 11-18-2005, 04:19 PM
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Well then all the EFI systems are going to bug you as all use one O2 sensor for the feedback loop into the fueling map. The sensor is located in one of the exhaust collectors. There are only about a billion cars setup this way so it pretty proven.

There really is only one box now with the FAST XFI, it comes fully loaded. The harness and sensors would simply be speced to your engine, ie: chevy, ford, mopar.

Your fuel system and injectors would be sized based on your HP requirements. So for that you need to realistically arrive at a total power level. What you don't want to do is spec injectors to feed 800 HP and only really need 500 or 600. For a blown and nitroused application as a rule of thumb I'd take your HP times .62 divided by number of cylinders to get an injector size. So 800 * .62 / 8 = 62 lbs each. Round up to the nearest injector size and that puts you in the 65lb area.

Pump and regulator would be speced similar.

On a large injector motor sequential is better because it fires once every intake stroke. Therfore if the idle pulsewidth of the injector is 2.3 ms that's what the injector fires. Since batch fire needs to fire the injector twice prior to the intake stroke the injector is forced to fire twice and therefore half of what's needed prior to the intake stroke. Firing an injector at 1 ms is not reliable as it simply can have a hard time with that small of a cycle time.

Batch fire is just what it says. one bank of cylinders fires in a batch then the other. Two injector firings per intake stroke. Semi sequential, like the edelbrock pro flo system is semi sequential, 2 injector firings at a time.

All the information/part numbers you need are on the FAST site. http://www.fuelairspark.com/
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Old 11-18-2005, 04:42 PM
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Well not a problem to have 1 oxygen senser, i'm just questionning how the system works

I have just got this a min. ago, then thats not too bad at all, let me know what you think ;

victor e w/rail
billet trottle bodie
injec. 96lbs (1000/1200HP whit NOS)
Aerom. Pro series fuel pump
Aer. Boost referenced regulator
xfi including hrdness & software
all sensor needed

4739$ fair price ?
should have everyting ?

Other question, is this have any control over the transmission ?
I have a 4L80e controled by a compushift, i have a TPS for that
on my carb.., it look like i can link the TPS whit the one on the trottle body


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick WI
Well then all the EFI systems are going to bug you as all use one O2 sensor for the feedback loop into the fueling map. The sensor is located in one of the exhaust collectors. There are only about a billion cars setup this way so it pretty proven.

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Old 11-18-2005, 07:53 PM
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http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
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Old 11-18-2005, 07:55 PM
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Hard to say if it's a fair price or not, it's in the ballpark for sure. Nothings fair in EFI, it's all expensive. It's about what I would expect.

The XFI has converter control but not transmission control. The big stuff 3 system has tranny control BUT, it's basically built around the old FAST box technology. Someday the XFI may have the tranny control added in via firmware and software upgrading. The capacity is there to do it. The hard sell is TCI is a sister company to FAST and they have their own stand alone box. You can simply tap into the TPS that will be attached to the Tbody to run your current controller.
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Old 11-18-2005, 08:13 PM
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007-
Grassroots Motorsports magazine has a wealth of vendors and backyard racers who have "fabbed their own"..... Turbo & Hi performance is basically
a Ricer magazine but the injection info is applicable....
Buena Suerte Amigo
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Old 11-18-2005, 08:32 PM
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Nice link to build your how, i will keep it, but at i have no time to learn build it, but it look like a nice thing to do in the futur btw..

Well i will probably goes whit the Xfi, i have already my trans controler that do a good job & lock my torq at my setting so. But i have seen also that to lock torque feature was there.

Well that again a lot of money btw
that 6000$ca for me But i need it really
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Old 11-19-2005, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x007
Nice link to build your how, i will keep it, but at i have no time to learn build it, but it look like a nice thing to do in the futur btw..

No need to build and suprisingly cost effective, assembled.

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/m...lete-c-25.html

or

ebay 1

ebay 2


Be sure and check out the forums page listed in the previous link I provided. Look at the success stories. No need to mortgage your home to run programmable efi. You may wanna contact a user on this board that goes by the name turbos10, he is running a unit that was developed from the MS system.

Last edited by 357f-150; 11-19-2005 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 11-19-2005, 08:01 AM
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Here are two examples of some very fast cars Turbo cars, one running FAST, the other Holley's C950. And as stated by RickWI, adding nitrous to either is no problem.

FAST - 90 mm Turbo Mustang 331 SBF
C950 - 98 mm Turbo Chevy II 380 SBC

As far sequential, not an option of Holley. But when I was on the phone with Holley's EFI tech guy (not Doug F), he told me that sequential systems are only active below like 3000 RPM. It helps with emissions, idle and low RPM drivability, but at higher RPMs and making horsepower, it has no advantage. I could not verify that either way

I did not need sequential for my application so I opted for the economy of the C950. I find it very user friendly and tuning is a "no-brainer". But I do not have any power adders, yet Maybe one day after kids are are all grown up and I have a few coins laying around (lol)

Generally I would not pick sides, but I will in the interest of X007's wallet and sanity. Stick with what RickWI suggests, for he has proven his knowledge and abilities many times over when it comes to this level of EFI and HP performance (He is also a chevytalk.org EFI forum regular). Do it right the first time and make sure you pick the right parts. Follow his advice!

Best of luck, Ed
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Old 11-19-2005, 09:26 AM
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F350 : i dont think i will go whit this since the xfi have more feature for my nitrous/SC, but i will certainly try to use this system on another project btw..

Ed: i'm dont know how sequantial work exactly & if what the guy tell you is right or not, i try to find more info, i found that fast apear to be the more common & there is more info on it on the net..

Just have to look in my wallet now.

Unless i found others info i will go whit fast..
By the way i have spend lot of money to try saving , each time i have to by a top end part after so i have learned that

Also i miss someting i don't understand if someone can reply to that, there is any way whit the Xfi to know each cylinder rich/lean status ? I dont think so because as i know i would need and oxy. sensor on all header tube ? Does i'm wrong ?

Also what appen if 1 injector fail ? Burn a piston ? is this can appen ?
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