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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2012, 12:52 PM
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Ifs

I have built a few rods so I get real close...10% for me or my customer.

www.fatman.com
www.totalcostinvolved.com
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2012, 06:48 PM
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s10 frames are great to work with. i put a corvette rear under mine. in mentor ohio they have a willys shop that just does s10 frame swaps on willys kits. search willys body kits mentor oh nice guys i took a tour of place and they don't mind talking and sharing info.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:19 PM
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If cost is a factor you are in the wrong hobby?? Of course this hobby gets expensive but by all means money is always an issue. there are lots of people that don't have the opportunity to even have or own such great vehicles. It's a gift to be able to work on them and a fortune to have some coin to play with. So it does not mean they are in the wrong hoppy, going s-10 route over IFS because of efficiency and cost is not wrong. Like the SBC, chevy made a great product and so is the s-10 frame. They are abundant and basic and have stood the test of time thus far for a reason. I like being able to buy aftermarket stuff, but honestly I like to see people make stuff work with what they got. If everyone had money and everyone could buy any part online, there would be little room for creativity, that would be too easy.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:39 PM
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[QUOTE there would be little room for creativity, that would be too easy.[/QUOTE]

We'll said! I for one like to see how cheap I can do something. Partly because
I have a family (bla bla bla) partly because its a fun challenge.
I really dig cars made at home for a reasonable price.

Hope to see pics of the project as its coming along!
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2012, 05:27 AM
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this is an expensive hobby any way you look at it . it always cost more than you plan on, it always takes longer than think .
personally i think aftermarket mll's are junk. i dont use them unless it is the last resort. just replaced the front of a 37 ford frame because of one of them .
the s10 needs no update unless you plan to run a lot of hp and abuse it. even then the s10 rear is ok. lot of them running ls motors. the brakes are fine. one nice thing is the s10 frame will mate to just about any frame usually just under the front seat. on a fat fender ford it will slide into the ford frame just under the front seat. the draw back is dealing with the radiator.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2012, 10:06 AM
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Aftermarket IFS vs S10 chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 to Life
If cost is a factor you are in the wrong hobby?? Of course this hobby gets expensive but by all means money is always an issue. there are lots of people that don't have the opportunity to even have or own such great vehicles. It's a gift to be able to work on them and a fortune to have some coin to play with. So it does not mean they are in the wrong hoppy, going s-10 route over IFS because of efficiency and cost is not wrong. Like the SBC, chevy made a great product and so is the s-10 frame. They are abundant and basic and have stood the test of time thus far for a reason. I like being able to buy aftermarket stuff, but honestly I like to see people make stuff work with what they got. If everyone had money and everyone could buy any part online, there would be little room for creativity, that would be too easy.
DITTO

As you can see from the pictures I posted, I grafted the S10 front clip onto the '46 Fat fendered Ford frame 13 inches back of the grease zert of the S10. The S10 frame was slotted 4 inches and the '46 frame was slid into the slot. The reason I chose this was because my '46 had perfect floors and I can use all of the body to frame mount holes and make no modifications to the floors with exception of clearance for the 2004R tranny on the slanted forward floor piece that bolts in.
Most of the time using a complete S10 frame requires that the frame be shortened or lengthened.
Diversity is what makes the hobby fit for so many.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:01 PM
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Believe it or not the S10 frame is only two inches longer than the Willys... all the Willys gurus tell me that is better because they do better (and look better) with the front wheels pushed out a couple inches.
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:18 AM
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Aftermarket IFS vs S10 chassis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slingshot60
Believe it or not the S10 frame is only two inches longer than the Willys... all the Willys gurus tell me that is better because they do better (and look better) with the front wheels pushed out a couple inches.
Wow! Thats great. Sounds like doing a frame swap is the way to go. My cousin put a '46 GMC PU onto an S10 frame and I think he had to lengthen the frame 4 inches. My friend is doing a '48 Ford PU onto a S10 frame and he is shortening the bed to get the wheelbase correct. As stated, that is what makes this hobby so great, the diversity. I like those old Willy's, good luck.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2012, 01:58 PM
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I almost bought a 1946 willys pickup that I was thinking about doing another s10 chassis for.

Then my wife pointed out that I didn't have any room to put it.......... Darn her for being logical................ I need a bigger garage LOL
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:22 PM
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Speaking of S10 chassis's, I was doing my daily check of the local craigslist to see if there was anything I didn't know I needed and came across a sand blasted and primed s10 chassis for $90

Someone please buy it before I do...... LOL

http://peoria.craigslist.org/pts/2846717223.html




Zach B

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2012, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biothree
DITTO

As you can see from the pictures I posted, I grafted the S10 front clip onto the '46 Fat fendered Ford frame 13 inches back of the grease zert of the S10. The S10 frame was slotted 4 inches and the '46 frame was slid into the slot. The reason I chose this was because my '46 had perfect floors and I can use all of the body to frame mount holes and make no modifications to the floors with exception of clearance for the 2004R tranny on the slanted forward floor piece that bolts in.
Most of the time using a complete S10 frame requires that the frame be shortened or lengthened.
Diversity is what makes the hobby fit for so many.

DITTO!!!! ditto ditto!!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2012, 08:12 PM
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more S10

go with the s-10 frame...I clipped my 1940 Chev 1/2 ton with an 86 S-10 Blazer 4x4 front end, like it was made for it. Added longer index stubs taken from other lower S10 A-arms to move torsion bar cross member behind 383ci /700R4 trans/NP207 transfer case. Used 1998 Chev S10 Blazer rear end ( limited slip) so disc brakes all around as well as front and rear sway bars (custom rear links). Have had it on the road for 2 years +, drives straight as arrow, corners like a sports car. email for pics of the install if you like wilgoo50@gmail.com
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2012, 08:37 AM
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Aftermarket IFS vs S10 chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmgood
go with the s-10 frame...I clipped my 1940 Chev 1/2 ton with an 86 S-10 Blazer 4x4 front end, like it was made for it. Added longer index stubs taken from other lower S10 A-arms to move torsion bar cross member behind 383ci /700R4 trans/NP207 transfer case. Used 1998 Chev S10 Blazer rear end ( limited slip) so disc brakes all around as well as front and rear sway bars (custom rear links). Have had it on the road for 2 years +, drives straight as arrow, corners like a sports car. email for pics of the install if you like wilgoo50@gmail.com
I like to hear of these success stories. It seems that I read a lot about the botched frame swaps and frame grafts. My cousin did similar to his 46 GMC as what you did except his is a 2 wheel drive lengthened S10 frame with a 4X4 rear end (wider). I enclosed a picture.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2012, 10:30 AM
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Frame swap thoughts

Of course it "can" be done. My argument with it is that the average guy who comes on here asking "what frame will work under my 51 Ford F-1"? is looking for an easy way out.

The typical guy who posts about frame swaps see things like this:

1. He has never even driven a stock truck with everything rebuilt and operating properly. He has no idea if that would be right for him. All he has is a twisted idea on how it drives from his worn out old truck, or worse, he has never even driven it because he bought it as a basket case.

2. He thinks there is some "easy way out" like when you have a flat head motor that is whooped and yank it out and stick in a small block Chevy with an adapter. Yep, problem solved, a frame "swap" like that doesn't exist. But in many peoples minds, that is EXACTLY what happens, just find the right frame and bolt it in.

3. It will be cheaper than anything else. He feels that buying another late model frame that the parts aren't "all old and rusty". He went thru his Summit, Speedway and Jegs Catalogs and with a wish list of all the new IFS set ups, brake lines, master cylinder, disc brake kits, steering boxes, sway bars, link kits, springs shackles, shocks, motor mount kits, brake pedal kits, ect. Then he went on eBay to find the 57 9" he wants and he adds this all up and it's WAY, WAY more money than his wife has allotted for his build. He does a quick look on Craigs list and finds a guy with an S-10 being parted out that still has a COMPLETE rolling chassis for only $500! ALL the parts he will need for a tenth of what Summit, Speedway and Jegs wanted for the "same" stuff!

4. It will be so fast! Just cut and weld the front end on or make a few "body mounts" and get his buddies over to transfer the cab and bed over to the "new frame" and he will be KA-ROOOZ-EEENG.


Reality:

1. He has driven this truck home with a barely running, oil smoking worn out old wrecking yard Chevy 350 that the PO swapped in. The suspension is mostly original and the tires are mismatched and junk. The brakes are shot with one wheel cyl leaking so bad the brake line was removed from it and an a plug put on the end of the line. It drives like crap and he really loves how his 2008 Chevy pickup drives and he just can't live with this.
He has never driven a nice original truck so he thinks this is how they drive. If he drove a nice rebuilt, drop axled modernized brake I beam axle truck he may find that it is well within his expectations and he would enjoy the difference from his daily driver.

2. Like the guy who looks at an engine swap and says “you had to make the motor mounts”? or “That sure looks like it went in easy” he has no clue that the motor mounts are the easy part, just as the body mounts will be with the frame “swap”. The headers to clear the steering, the moving of the steering, the notch and relief in the firewall for the distributor, change of the radiator so the fan clears the lower hose, the moving of the brake pedal because it hit the bell housing, the changing of wiring over to the other side where the new starter is, notching of the oil pan to clear the tie rod, rebuilding of the X member to clear the trans, the cutting of the drive shaft, notching of the front crossmember to clear the lower pully, etc. He has no idea what the engine swap looks “easy” because the guy who did it is very talented and MADE it look “easy” with LOADS of work and time. The “body mounts” are the easiest part in the frame “swap”. The running board mounts, the bumper mounts, the rad support needing modification, the floor on the cab needing holes welded and new ones cut for brake linkage, the fender supports, the bed mounts that need to be cut and fabbed, steering linkage to column fabbing, moving of the rear end on the frame because the wheelbase is off, the cutting of the drive shaft, replacement of the rad because the support has been modified, the changing of the motor mounts because the motor was further forward on the frame in the donor car, etc. There are a TON of modifications needed to “swap” the frame that the guy looking for an “easy way out” doesn’t see thru his rose colored glasses.

3. He has the mistaken thought that the late model frame he is going to buy for the “swap” has all the parts he needs and they can be used as is. Nope, he gets into the “swap” and finds that the brake lines will need to be changed because of the relocating of the master cyl and moving the rear end forward. The rotors are shot, the calipers can be used but they will require a clean up. The front end will need to be disassembled and the ball joints will all need to be replaced being the boots get torn taking it apart. The springs aren’t going to work being they are too stiff or so soft, too high, too low. The shocks need replacing, (well of course I am not going to run with those worn out shocks!) and the master and wheel cylinders will get changed because the right one is leaking anyway, and the master has a brake line rusted into it. Or it simply won’t work in the new location, no room. The hoses of course will be changed (come on now, what kind of hack do you think I am, I am not going to drive with those cracked old hoses) The front sway bar needs to be replaced with new mounts because it hits the fabbed bumper brackets and rad support, and of course the link bushings are all junk and besides, they are lowly rubber I need the hot rod urethane bushings, the tie rod ends need to be changed for the same reason as the ball joints, the boots are torn and besides, who reuses old steering components, new ones are only $20 each. And it goes on and on. If you just throw together a junker with the replacement frame, sure it will save you money, but who in the world does that? He may THINK you are going to, but then comes looking at that rear end all funky, CRAP, it comes apart and gets painted, now you need to replace the e brake cables, the cover gasket, the lube in it, ect.

Where in reality there he didn’t need all that stuff from the catalogs, there is a middle of the road where most could be had from the wrecking yard, or buddies or what ever and only some of the parts bought new.

4. As pointed out in #2 and 3, there is a LOT of work and the time spent is simply “swapped” from making the original frame work, and making the donor frame work, that is all there is to it, facts are facts. And where he thinks he will use parts the way they are but he soon sees that he can’t bolt the funky rear end into his frame that he has cleaned up and painted, this requires replacement of certain parts. Then he finds that the rear doesn’t have the gearing he wanted and he needs another one anyway, etc.


Reality:

The frame “swaps” and clips that are done by talented skilled craftsmen do work, heck yes they work. Can they be done by the first timer, yes, a first timer that is well versed in fab with a measuring tape and LOTS of questions and study, heck yes. But his dreams and fantasies of fast and cheap and easy are a pipe dream. The experienced builder can do it pretty quick and even he is honest with himself will say that it takes longer. But if the desire for a car that handles and drives like a new car is what you are after, this is one say to get it. But a first timer, it will be MUCH longer to pull off a swap than upgrading what you have. But honestly, go back to #1 on the reality side, do you REALLY need to make it drive like a “new car”? Only he has that answer. If that is a MUST, then a frame swap or clip pay be the way to go.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetmaster47
X2. If the S-10 can be swapped in with minimal effort then go for it but check it out closely. Personally if it was me I would box my frame get a good quality IFS kit and then swap in your desired rear axle.

+1 The S-10 setup works on GM AD trucks because it is easy to space the cab off the frame to get things to line up and you can raise the bed floor easily along with some trimming on the front inner fenders. But it isn't the cure all fix all that a lot of people think it is.

1. Those little Jeeps had hell for stout frames to begin with and they are running around with V8 conversions and have been for over 50 years. My 8BA flathead came out of a Jeep Wagon that it was installed in back in the 50's or 60's and there are many in this area with V8 Chevs in them.

2. I wouldn't be quick to discard or destroy the jeep frame because I would have to believe you will find that you are going to have to hack up the jeep floor pan more than you want to to get the S-10 frame to fit and not have the body sit six or eight inches above the frame in the center. Once you get both frames out and sitting side by side I believe you will discover that you have way more work ahead of you than you planned on and the bulk of the front suspension is going to cause a lot of hacking and cutting on the front sheet metal of the Jeep.

3. The detractors to the MII setup are still the same misinformed bunch that have always been around since the beginning. Think the factory isn't up to the job go to O'Reilly's site and Put 76 Mustang II in the car choice and then look up the upper ball joints. then click on Compatible with then after you see what those ball joints fit, come back and tell me that they aren't as stout as S-10 pieces. The wheel bearings are the same wheel bearings that Ford has put on almost every vehicle they ever built.
That and the aftermarket front ends use very few original Ford parts anyhow.

300 for a junk S-10 frame, 2/300 to swap front brakes XX to swap rear ends (why does it need a rear end swap?) Plus 3/400 in parts to rebuild the S-10 suspension because it is worn out and add 300 to that if you have to have someone else do it and pretty soon you have more in that swap in $$$ than the best MII setup out there.
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