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Old 12-05-2007, 08:39 PM
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Air Line Drawings

Made up a detailed drawing of airlines.

Check the whats new page on my website.

Rob

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Jigs, sandblasting, shop, paintroom, rotisserie, pictures, little bit of everything.
http://www.1969supersport.com

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Old 12-05-2007, 10:12 PM
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That looks really good, very well thought out and makes excellent use of available space.
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Old 12-05-2007, 11:05 PM
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Thanks Oldred.

Rob

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Jigs, sandblasting, shop, paintroom, rotisserie, pictures, little bit of everything.
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:42 AM
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Is black pipe better than galvanized pipe for compressed air use? I just got my new Ingersol compressor and was going to fab up a similar pipe system as shown on your website, but was going to use galvanized pipe to prevent any rust/scale from forming on the inside of the pipe walls.

Any thoughts?

Antny
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:50 PM
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Here you go.


Galvanized pipe according to tp tools is not a good idea, should stay with the black pipe.

They tell about it on there tips/technical section. tips is on the upper red bar at the top of the page, at the far right.

http://www.tptools.com/ < Go here first

Then click on tips/technical

Then click on air line hookup- metal piping diagram

Then click on minimize moisture in your air lines with metal piping

This company has been in the business for a long time

Rob

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Old 12-10-2007, 07:11 PM
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Just a suggestion here, plan out your air lines very carefully, it will pay off in longer air tool life and less moisture in any blasting media, and cleaner paint jobs.

Rob

There are questions to be answered, and answers to be questioned"

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Old 12-10-2007, 07:41 PM
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Who says galvanized pipe is bad? Black pipe is designed for gas with no moisture. Compressed air is FULL of moisture and will rust the inside of the pipe. Galvanized is always recommeded first by paint gun manufacturers. Actually they will say copper, but second is galvanized.

Here is a layout I have lived by for years from Sharpe Spray gun.

Brian

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Old 12-10-2007, 08:13 PM
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Tp tools sell a lot of sandblasters, and its a known fact, that if you can sand blast without getting moisture into your media, you should never ever have a paint problem.

But why would they know anything?

Now as far as your airline setup, I see you have a air dryer, I don't, I can't afford that luxury.

The reason you have that dryer in there, is because you need to run a minimum of 50' before you go into the filters.

Looks like your about 10' short.

Or is that two air dryers?

Black pipe is pretty close to half the price of galvanized.

You don't see any air dryers in that drawing I put on, but that system works, and works well, if it didn't I wouldn't have it.

I keep a dumpster here, and I would put the whole business right in there without a second thought if it didn't work.

I would imagine there is a little maintenance to be done on those air dryers.

Painting is only one part of a restoration, bead and pot blasting sometimes come into play.

I'll tell you something Brian, I spent about three days trying to make that drawing, and its been on eight car forums, and then you jump right on the black pipe.

If it wasn't the black pipe it would be something else, you will find a way to degrade somebodys hard work.

You should try and compliment somebody when they take the time to do things like this.

My wife is 65 years old, and she resizes all these pictures and cleans up my english, she made the web site, and she has spent a lot of time putting all of this stuff on, as well as myself, you sure can ruin a guys day.

Rob


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Last edited by robs ss; 12-10-2007 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 12-10-2007, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robs ss
You should try and compliment somebody when they take the time to do things like this.
Rob
http://webpages.charter.net/2manitowoc
Rob, You sure did a great job on the drawings and stuff! If my comments "ruined your day" you need to sit down and take a deap breath and maybe a beer. NOTHING I say, or anyone else should do that to you. Just as stroking you for your work shouldn't make your day.

Listen, the drawing you did is pretty interesting and really should work pretty good a trapping moisture. I have never seen it done like that and was taken aback when I first opened it not being able to figure out what it was you did. But after figuring it out, it is pretty interesting.

As for the black pipe, you may have done all the research in the world but you didn't go to any paint gun people. A good volume of high quality air is much more important when painting than running air tools, sand blasting or what ever. Sooooo, I am going to go with what the manufacturers who spend zillions of dollars researching have to say. And they ALL say use galvanized pipe or copper.

I piped my garage with about $50.00 in pipe, all brand new at a retail hardware store. I don't feel that is too much to spend for such a long lasting tool. The diagram, that is from one of the largest paint gun manufacturers in the world. And if you look up the Devilbiss, SATA, and other paint gun manufacturers you will see a VERY similar guideline to pipe your compressor for the ultimate quality air. You will also see that black pipe will NEVER be suggested, in fact they say stay away from it.

This is a forum of discussion and darn it, discussion is good.

Brian
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:44 PM
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Why Wouldn't You Pitch The Main Overhead Line Away From The Compressor It Would Allow The Air And Moisture To Seperate Easier. With The Line Pitched Towards The Compressor The Moisture Is Constantly Pushed By The Air Keeping It In Suspension.ifthe Moisture In Compressed Air Acts Anything Like The Water In A Steam Pipe You Always Try To Pitch The Line Away From The Source. Least Thats What They Taught Me
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:18 PM
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Good point, I didn't think about it when I drew it up, I kind of copied what I had. It took me three trys to keep the piping straight.

Most companies tell you to keep your compressor 16'' or 18'' away from the wall for cooling. So your fan is blowing away quite a bit of the warm air.

But it would be better running it the other direction.

Rob


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Old 12-10-2007, 10:43 PM
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Wagonman, another thing just dawned on me, when the compressor isn't running, the fan isn't blowing, so the heat from the compressor is cooking the pipes over head, the pipes as well as the wall will be warmer, like you said, run it the other direction.

Rob


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Old 12-11-2007, 07:01 AM
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Just my 2 cts, 59 when you say "pitch the line away from the compressor" I am assuming you are talking about the angle it is being run (the line closest to the tank) and not the location in relation to the compressor? If so then in theory there may be some advantage to pitching the line away from the compressor but actually when the air is moving (at least in any appreciable volume) the air flow will override any effects of gravity and the direction of pitch will have little effect on the water in the lines during this phase and most of the drainage occurs during the static phase, almost all the water that close to the compressor is going to be in vapor form anyway in which case it will not matter much which way the line is pitched. The compressor being located directly under the line in that drawing might have some effect if the air flow from the cooling fan is blowing directly on it but this effect should be minimal as long as the ventilation around the whole set-up is adequate, I assumed this trade off was done because of space limitations. Heat from the compressor can have a big effect on the lines if ventilation is inadequate because of heat build near the ceiling where most of the lines will be located in a small shop and the heat from the compressor can contribute to this. I looked that drawing over again and about the only mod I see would be to move the compressor away from the line if space permits but if not I think any problems from it would be minor. IMHO I think that set-up is a really slick way of dealing with the problem of finding space to run the line necessary for good cooling and should work really good.


Please excuse me if I misunderstood what you meant by "pitch"

Last edited by oldred; 12-11-2007 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 12-12-2007, 07:20 PM
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Based on my research and discussions with a few automatic control system vendors, type L or K copper with brazed joints is the preferred piping system, followed next by galvanized pipe, then black steel pipe (never PVC). The prevailing issue is the water in the air which will eventually condense within the piping. Copper won't corrode and form sludge. Neither will galvanized pipe. Black steel pipe will corrode and sludge will form within the pipe. The sludge will eventaully find its way out the point-of-use device. Since a galvanized pipe system is not that much more expensive, I'll go that route...unless I can talk my old man into dusting off his torch rig and brazing copper for me! Another good (I think) tip I found is a recommendation to use a short length (2 or 3 feet) of new high-pressure hydraulic hose to connect the compressor to the galvanized pipe. This is to allow the compressor to vibrate without affecting the rigid metal pipe system, to avoid a fatigue/stress failure. I think I now have a plan. Thanks again guys.

Antny
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Old 12-12-2007, 07:28 PM
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as a plumber for the past 30 years i feel justified in making this statement galvinized pipe rots internally and you can't see most of the corrosion/many localties no longer accept galv pipe for gas lines. copper is a great product for this and can be soldered or a special tool and fittings called a propress is available (check out viega plumbing products for more info.) there is also a new aluminum tubing meant especially for airlines which uses compression fittings to join it together . brazing copper tubing isn't too hard sometimes easier then even soldering cleaning isnt as important in brazing either
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