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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 04:02 AM
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Well looks like another brand new guy, 2 posts new, proud as heck with what he has done to his car (right or wrong) ripped to shreds by the usual suspects. Hope he returns!!


Dave W
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dry
Here lies the problem the car starts right up no timing drag hot or cold and runs great,no pinging, no stumbles or hesitations, temp stays about 190 drives great on the road 3500 rpm at 70 mph and runs well stop light to stop light when just driving it normal.........PROBLEM is when you try to stand on it from a stop light it doesn't have enough torque to even break the tires loose....
One thing is driving technique. I guarantee you unless that engine isn't making 250 HP, that it WILL most certainly spin the tires from a dead stop- but in doing so, you only unnecessarily tax the drivetrain and waste tire rubber. There are a LOT of guys who would kill for a car that would hook and go, w/o drama of wheel spin!!

Another problem could be a close ratio gear set in your tranny. If it IS a close ratio box, first gear is good for something like 50 MPH at 5000 RPM, and would be hard pressed to break the tires loose, w/o sidestepping the clutch at redline- something I will advise you NOT to do!

That said, the biggest impediment to making good power is the heads you have. If you're serious about making good power, get w/the program and install a good set of free-flowing heads in the 180 cc intake runner range, w/2.02" x 1.6" valves and 64 cc chambers. This should give you sufficient compression and flow to take advantage of that modern grind camshaft you'll be getting to replace the ancient-tech Fireball.

As for "ripped to shreds by the usual suspects"- shame on all you “suspects” for not sugar coating the whole thing! You are supposed to coddle and sooth the OP! Forget about the facts and the hard lessons learned- don't you know it is all about warm, fuzzy PC?
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adantessr
I LOVE reading replies from oldbogie , techinspector and cobalt327 . They REALLY have their poop together when it comes to chevy engines .
HEY lets not forget to include F-Bird '88 in that group.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 10:09 AM
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Have you tried the ignition locked out @ 36?
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:37 AM
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Sounds like you pissed a lot of money away on crap. Which is why it is important to be an educated consumer (I hope other can read this example and take it as a lesson learned).

As already stated, your pistons are most likely in the hole .040" or more, you're probably running a .045" gasket, you have some of the worst heads ever produced by chevy, and one of the laziest cams still sold (with WAY too much seat duration). If you tried to sell that engine you could probably only get about $250 for it as there is literally nothing of value in it.

At this point the easiest/cheapest way out IMO is to buy a used running Vortec or LT1 engine, do a intake/dizzy swap, keep your carb, and sell your engine off to someone who just needs a running sbc for a daily driver.

A second option is to run a "mini-blower" and a cam swap with about 7psi but that will end up costing twice as much as the option I outlined.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
As for "ripped to shreds by the usual suspects"- shame on all you “suspects” for not sugar coating the whole thing! You are supposed to coddle and sooth the OP! Forget about the facts and the hard lessons learned- don't you know it is all about warm, fuzzy PC?


I wish more people in life were "ripped to shreds," maybe then this whole "my mistakes are someone else's fault" and "I am entitled to have them take care of my problems" attitude would end.

Thank God my parents were some of the few who knew the right way to bring up a kid was not what was/is advertised on TV.

When I screwed up I got a lot of these ---> And today my kid gets them when he screws up, (which is far more seldom than most kids BTW).
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckBird
HEY lets not forget to include F-Bird '88 in that group.
Ooops sorry f-bird . It was late , or should I say early morning and hadn't been to be yet .
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john-dickjr
its a chevy , so did you really think it was going to make any power at all, i loved to kill vettes with my little 347 motor, but serious, is the motor a 350 i guess, and a smog motor at that, with a stock rebuild, it make like 180 hp, so no, its not going to spin the tires, unless you clutch dump it

just since you're the first one on here to say something i will have to meniton that i love to kill Pony's and their little 347's with my 385cid street car running 11's.

but anyway since that is out of the way. i agree with some on here that your compression doesn't sound right with the 882 heads. i have a saying about having machine work done on crappy heads for performance vehicles "you can polish a turd all you want but in the end you still have a turd" you need to find a different set of heads, look into EQ, RHS, or DART for a set of 180cc iron heads, the cam doesn't sound great but if you were to bump up the compression ratio to about 10:1 you would be able to offset the late intake closure from the cam, and i might look into a set of 1.6 rockers to help with the ramp rate as well. i dont think your carb is too far off but i would think a 650 would do you a little better once you put diffenent heads on there and increased the compression, i dont think a 700-750 is needed at all. and like others menitoned i would look at craiglist for a used performer RPM intake.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 11:10 AM
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Fastest Mustang at the local strip has a SBC in it. Painted blue. Most of the Ford guys cant tell the difference.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 11:12 AM
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There are a LOT of guys who would kill for a car that would hook and go, w/o drama of wheel spin!!
I'm with ya there cobalt . My bucket will get a little sideways from a deadstop due to only weighing 1800 lbs but it is impossible to brake torque it due to the tiny rear brakes in the early GM rearend . I hold the brake pedal down as hard as I can (power brakes) with my left foot and press on the throttle with my right and I can slide the front tires down the road as far as I want . No too far , I don't want flat spots on my tires . Good hookup with the long wishbones >>>>>>>>
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmsport
Fastest Mustang at the local strip has a SBC in it. Painted blue. Most of the Ford guys cant tell the difference.
Back in '68 a guy in my little home town of 2000 put a bluprinted 327 his '66 'stang. Nothin' could touch it .
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmsport
Fastest Mustang at the local strip has a SBC in it. Painted blue. Most of the Ford guys cant tell the difference.
That's funny . Don't they notice that Ford dist is in the front . LOL
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 11:37 AM
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op's original post
Quote:
Block was line bored .30 over and decked. the rotating assembly was balanced, forged flat tops,
I agree with what everyone's saying here about the crap heads, dog of a cam etc etc but did the machine shop really use re builder pistons with reduced height? op says forged so I doubt it but stanger things have happened. And when they decked the block surely they must have had a clue as to were the piston was going to end up in the hole, hopefully 0 to 0.015 give or take. So with any luck he can swap the cam, heads and intake as mentioned and get his power back.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 11:45 AM
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The cam is not so bad, for the 882 heads cause they stagnate at about .400 lift. Low speed torque is created by dynamic compression and stroke.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
My SCR calculator (static compression ratio) gives you 8.6 to 1 with flat tops and these heads with a zero decked block and .019 gasket. My conversion to DCR dynamic compression ratio gives you a useful ratio based on intake closing point and what that does to mixture density is 6.4 to 1 which is way low, the DCR needs to be around 8 to 8.5 to one. The Fireball 290 is an old design cam with too much overlap, a very late closing intake combined with relatively low lift. You really have to be careful of pistons as has been mentioned, there are short deck pistons designed to maintain stock compression with decked blocks, if you have a set of these the static compression is in the sevens or less.

A quick and dirty improvement could be to advance the cam you have from 4 to 8 degrees. You need to check for cam to valve interference before firing the engine but with the low lift that's probably not going to be an issue. This cam has a nasty sounding street idle but in the big picture is no great shakes as a performance item, it has all the bad features (rough idle, weak torque curve) and few of the good ones (top end power output). Actually you intake and carb selection are pretty good considering this bump stick.

The carb's small for this combo and the Performer leaves a lot of power on the table, the Performer RPM is a much better unit. The carb and intake you have really aren't a problem till you wind this up and this doesn't sound like it was built to wind high so changing them right now is a moot point. If you change any of this start with the intake not the carb.

I don't understand what you're saying about the ignition timing, my first impression is that's it's well F'ed Up, but that comes from my intreperation of your description. Some questions to help me;

What is the static setting in degrees?

Does it have a vacuum advance? If so how much advance for how much vacuum?

Sounds like it has a centrifugal advance, that brings the question as to how much? When does it start in RPMs? What is the rate of increase in degrees per 1000 RPM?

Do you know how much total advance there is when it's all in, that is measured degrees against RPM not guesses and not some brochure data, but real measures.


Recommendations:

I'd start with advancing the cam from 4 to 8 degrees. This results in ending the intake cycle sooner against crank degrees which will help the bottom end but hurt the top. Then! Them heads gotta go, you spent a lot of money on those things making a silk purse out of a sows ear. They're now just a shiny expensive sow's ear that's as useless as before. And give me some real ignition timing data. This cam makes for a weak cylinder charge on the bottom end it takes a lot of compression and ignition lead to overcome at least some of that. Cut back on the octane to see if you can get this thing to ping, the fact it doesn't isn't telling me what I want to know. Don't worry for a street engine it takes a lot of pinging to do any harm.

Make one change at a time and test, don't rip it apart and do a bunch of stuff then hope it all works, then you never know what did and didn't work for it.

Bogie
Ok, Thanks everyone for the input and opinions let me start by trying to answer some of the response questions.

(1) Yes it is a close ratio 4 speed winds out in 1st gear about 55 mph with a 3:72 posi.

(2) It is a Zero decked blocked but is not using short decked pistons it is using the actual factory .60 over forged replacement pistons.

(3) The 290H Cam was picked due to its nasty sounding old school street profile along with the fact Cranes profile and tech's assured me i could get some low end grunt with it.

(4) The car pulls real strong from 3k rpm on to about 5500.

(5) the intake is the performer rpm sorry i left that part out.

(6) Timing static is 18 degree BTDC +4 cam advance and the mechanical advance is factory +20.

(7) Advance is active at 850 rpm from off idle ,All in at 3200 rpm for a total of 42 degrees BTDC.

(8) There are no headers just factory logs into a 2.25" magnaflow system true dual from logs out.

(9) This a Non A/C Car so no accessories other than water pump and alternator.

****Anytime you turn the car off you smell gas--NO LEAKS or DRIPS--And you always have to depress gas pedal one time prior to starting cold or hot***

PS---Anybody has a good set of small block heads etc that WILL help my cause i have a bunch of Mk IV BBC I MIGHT be interested in trading some of it--stuff like Ross forged 51cc .60 over Pistons, Trw hyperkin .60 over, Edelbrock 7075 polished with bird catcher top, BBC Dimple rods,1971 factory replacement rectangular port heads bare castings plus manley ss valves and crower springs-plus other stuff was going to build for this car BUT think going to stay SBC....
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