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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 05:34 PM
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1.21 giga-watts???!!!!
 
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Find out what is up with the vacuum and the compression and then PUT SOME HEADERS ON THAT ENGINE. It needs to breathe. I remember my 1978 Nova with a 305 that wouldn't get rubber in any gear. Put headers on it and had to feather the throttle sometimes to keep from smoking the tires. You will find the same thing. My guess is you'll have to re-jet the carb the engine is going to breathe so much better. I believe those heads will want a total timing of 36 degrees give or take a degree. Good luck.

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
The compression test is very low. Should be 180psi. Where is the missing 50psi?

You should check and verify the actual cam in your motor.
What you are describing for idle manifold vacuum and idle sound does not jib with a mild near smooth idle fireball 290H. 216-216-454-454 More like the larger Fireball 302H 284-284-228-228 480-480 112. Wouldn;t be first time wrong cam in the box.
This larger cam has a soggy low end below 3000 and will contribute to a low compression test result.

The heads have to go. You are giving up a huge amount of torque.
Ported 1.94-1.60 4416 305 heads on this motor would be like night and day.
new aftermarket high perf heads will be like bolting on a afterburner.

with just 135psi compression test there is a error in this engine build.
Sorry I pulled the wrong cam # info to begin with don't know why i even had that cam # so here is the real deal...

Ok let the flaming begin F-BIRD is CORRECT! I dug thru all my paper work and found the actual Crane Cam Specs and Here they are "So does this change anything"

Series grind # 3/4 Race 300-06 H (Cam use oval/drag)
SBC Hyd. Rough idle, 283-400CI, good mid-range torque, OK for Auto w/street perf. conv. in 327-up CI, Power brakes req. 99590-1 Vac. res. system, aftermarket carb, int, & exh. advised, compression ratio 9:50 to 10:50 highly advised.
Basic RPM 2200-5200
Dur. @ .050 218* 218*
adv. Dur 300* 300*
Lobe seperation 106*
running clearance hot .000 .000
Gross valve lift .480 .480

My final build sheet reflects a compression ratio of 9.57:1

I am also going to recheck my vacuum and cranking pressures.........
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 07:47 PM
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Here's the problem, your .050" timing is about right, but your seat timing is rediculous! 300! That is going to kill torque, kill vacuum, and require locked timing at 36 degrees. You need to swap that cam the one I recomended earlier will put you at about 14 inches of vacuum and a lot more drivable. You need about 270 seat duration, WAY less than the 300 you have.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 08:16 PM
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5 pages of posting and now the information changes. Maybe you should start over with telling everyone what your setup is all the way down to what size of tire and what fuel you run, I think it will be helpful to the people that have been trying to help you and hopefully still will.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 10:24 PM
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Ya it changes things.

I am very familar with all the Crane cams past and present.
There is a inconsistancy in your specs.
That is an old "energizer" 3/4 race grind.
The .480" spec does not jib with 218@.050"

Crane has .480" hyd lobes with either 228 or 238 deg @.050"

Either of which won't have a lot of grunt below 3000rpm.
If low rpm grunt is a thing you wanted, you have the wrong cam in the car-
and the heads are killing it and the low cr is killing it.
Corvettes do not use a "log manifold" They use a ram horn style center exit
manifold on the corvette. The good (corvette) ones that make power have 2.5" exits not 2.25".

What is the actual crane part number of the cam in your motor?
Are you looking at the original Crane cam card or something written down?

The build sheet cr spec and the actual engines real compression ratio
very likely are two different things. The low cranking compression
is a good indicator of that.
From you idle vacuum it looks like you have the 238deg cam and a mechanical cr of 8.5:1 not more than 9.1:1.

you can fix this car but you first have to determine what you actually got for a motor and be willing to make some changes.
What you got so far, is not going to do what you want it to do.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 08-11-2010 at 10:36 PM.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2010, 11:03 PM
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if the cam in your motor is the Crane 300-06H with .480" lift
it should be this lobe
If so it does not work with low cr, bad heads or restrictive manifolds
It does not get busy till 3000+rpm
bad choice for this motor

The car stinks of gas when you shut it off cause you have disabled the OEM charcoal canister fuel evap system. The aftermarket holley 600 carb does not have provisions for this fuel vapour evap emissions device. Should have kept the origional L-82 Q JET and used it on the Qjet/spreadbore flanged version of the Performer RPM intake manifold. The old 4MV style Qjets flowed 750cfm. You took a step back using a 600cfm carb on this motor.
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Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 08-11-2010 at 11:10 PM.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2010, 09:15 AM
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No burner vette street machine

Try this: Have the fly wheel refaced, then
Install new clutch and pressure plate and throwout bearing.
Have someone who knows what they are doing set the timing.
Do a compression check, and start thinking about worn cam lobes.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2010, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dry
Sorry I pulled the wrong cam # info to begin with don't know why i even had that cam # so here is the real deal...

Ok let the flaming begin F-BIRD is CORRECT! I dug thru all my paper work and found the actual Crane Cam Specs and Here they are "So does this change anything"

Series grind # 3/4 Race 300-06 H (Cam use oval/drag)
SBC Hyd. Rough idle, 283-400CI, good mid-range torque, OK for Auto w/street perf. conv. in 327-up CI, Power brakes req. 99590-1 Vac. res. system, aftermarket carb, int, & exh. advised, compression ratio 9:50 to 10:50 highly advised.
Basic RPM 2200-5200
Dur. @ .050 218* 218*
adv. Dur 300* 300*
Lobe seperation 106*
running clearance hot .000 .000
Gross valve lift .480 .480

My final build sheet reflects a compression ratio of 9.57:1

I am also going to recheck my vacuum and cranking pressures.........
That matches up w/the following specs on a Cam Dynamics (same as Crane) cam, except for the lift:

SBC Hyd. Rough idle, 283-400CI, good mid-range torque, OK for Auto w/street perf. conv. in 327-up CI, Power brakes req. 99590-1 Vac. res. system, aftermarket carb, int, & exh. advised.
Basic RPM 2200-5200
Cam use oval/drag Series grind # 3/4 Race 300-06 H
Dur. @ .050 218* 218*
adv. Dur 300* 300*
Lobe separation 106*
running clearance hot .000 .000
Gross valve lift .450 .450

Wouldn't be the first time the wrong cam was boxed and sold, because this cam would have much better vacuum than you're seeing- unless you have other problems.

I would at least check the lift to see what you really have, as long as you are sure who's cam it is in the first place. A lift of 0.450" will be 0.480 w/1.6 rockers. Possible that's what's going on here?
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2010, 11:17 AM
dry dry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
That matches up w/the following specs on a Cam Dynamics (same as Crane) cam, except for the lift:

SBC Hyd. Rough idle, 283-400CI, good mid-range torque, OK for Auto w/street perf. conv. in 327-up CI, Power brakes req. 99590-1 Vac. res. system, aftermarket carb, int, & exh. advised.
Basic RPM 2200-5200
Cam use oval/drag Series grind # 3/4 Race 300-06 H
Dur. @ .050 218* 218*
adv. Dur 300* 300*
Lobe separation 106*
running clearance hot .000 .000
Gross valve lift .450 .450


I would at least check the lift to see what you really have, as long as you are sure who's cam it is in the first place. A lift of 0.450" will be 0.480 w/1.6 rockers. Possible that's what's going on here?
You are correct the cam is 450/450 i didn't realize i hit the wrong keys I was getting flustered yesterday. I RECHECKED some numbers last night and quit going from my memory crap-------Ok the vacuum is around 7.5" and bouncing at a 750 rpm idle if you raise the idle to 1000 rpm it almost quits bouncing and holds at 10". Ok the piston numbers someone had asked for i found on a receipt from GM DIRECT and the # is 1464695-GM. I also rechecked the cold cranking pressures all plugs out and carb closed 163-165 across the board. Also i noticed my fuel pressure gauge is bouncing from 3-7lbs (i am guessing it has gone bad, its not oil filled, i plan on replacing it today for verification)This is all recent data without trying to rely on my memory as of last night.

I appreciate everyones opinions and help----as someone insinuated in an earlier post i have posted erroneous info and wasted you guys time that may be but it was not on purpose and i appologize for that!

All the most recent factual data is posted here now and it really looks like it doesn't change anything. I guess from all your opinions i will lock the timing down at 36 degrees, get a set of long tube headers and go to 2.50" exhaust pipes and deal with it. I am starting to think that with muncie 4 speed close ratio transmission and the above changes is probably going to be the best i can get with out pulling the engine down again and if i do that i might as well build a 383 which is not going to happen in the near future.

There has been a ton of $$$'s in this frame off rebuild all went well except trying to de-smog a 250 hp L82 and bump it to 375-400hp L82

Any other input will be appreciated and if not it is what is for the time being.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2010, 11:26 AM
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Now, you do as you see fit- but there's no reason that you can't use both mechanical and vacuum advance w/that cam. Just so you know there are other options to a locked timing.

If you have a 218 degree @ 0.050" cam w/0.450" lift, it should be doing better than what you're seeing for vacuum. If you DO lock it at 36-38 or whatever (what heads do you have, anyway? lol), unless something else is wrong, the vacuum should pick up. If not, you aren't done yet!
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2010, 11:33 AM
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I myself don't think the vacuum is going to get a whole lot better with the cam having 300 seat-to-seat duration. Headers would help a great deal, and so would advancing the cam 4-6 if you aren't going to change it.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2010, 12:10 PM
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Get a new cam. Don't waste your time trying to fix what you have when it needs to be changed. For 100 bucks plus a few gaskets you can fix a lot of your problems. Then tune it. Then headers when you can and tune it again.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2010, 12:52 PM
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Just a thought: could you offset the close ratio transmission with different rear gears maybe?
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2010, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog7373
Just a thought: could you offset the close ratio transmission with different rear gears maybe?
Yes, you can. 3.73 rear gears (what the OP has) is the highest you'd want to use, but to get a 9:1 first gear (considered about the highest you'd want for a good launch) will require 4.11:1 rear gears. To get a 10:1 first gear, would take 4.56's. But either of those gears will adversely affect the cruise capabilities, though- he's still saddled w/a 1:1 4th. gear, as in no OD.

But I like the way you think!
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2010, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Yes, you can. 3.73 rear gears (what the OP has) is the highest you'd want to use, but to get a 9:1 first gear (considered about the highest you'd want for a good launch) will require 4.11:1 rear gears. To get a 10:1 first gear, would take 4.56's. But either of those gears will adversely affect the cruise capabilities, though- he's still saddled w/a 1:1 4th. gear, as in no OD.

But I like the way you think!
I am already at about 3500rpm at 70 mph, i really don't want it any tighter on the highway, good thought though.

Last edited by dry; 08-12-2010 at 03:29 PM.
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