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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2008, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 Z28
No, absolutely not. Sand has no insulating qualities compared to micro balloons. Micro Balloons are microscopic glass spheres, they are hollow sand is not.

Vince
I'm sorry...I must have miss led you in my post. I didnt mean replace the microballons with sand. I was asking about the latex/enamel mix we did. It leaves the cured product as an almost rubber like consistency. Then adding the micro bubbles. Sorry for the miss lead.

Dave

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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 03:23 PM
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Herculiner is a polyurethane base with rubber pieces. Duplicolor bed coating is vinyl polymer (with solids I assume).

Any tips on a usable poly or vinyl base for the spheres (i.e. Herculiner or similar without the rubber non-slip particles to get in the way)? Anything with some silicon additives that provide the insulating effects of silicon (pot holders, spark plug boots, etc). Has anyone figured out the composition of some of these motor home and home products? Other ideas?

Whatever I end up with will be topcoated with a professionally sprayed in bedliner (this is an offroad vehicle that lives with the top on sometimes and no plan for carpet). I am hoping to roll it on. Looks won't matter much. I just need to keep the heat out and soften the "tin can" as much as possible. I can't use mat materials (except inside fenders and doors) because I'm not using carpet.

Last edited by backpain; 03-04-2008 at 03:36 PM.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 10:05 AM
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I can only help/answer about compatibility: the principle carrier/solvent in the Duplicolor is xylene
(great because it means you can just clean/scuff and re-coat anytime...it re-wets the bottem layer to help bond all together)

Vince!....10 pages and climbing!!!!....I am laughing
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2008, 11:56 AM
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This thread brought me to Hotrodders from another forum. Great info! I started looking into what carrier paint I was going to use and found this:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...Id=24995264353

Looks like great minds think a like. Looks like the typical Kool Seal with microspheres. Can't find any more info on concentration of the microspeheres on the Kool Seal or KST coatings web sites, but they claim it's 20% lighter than the regular Kool Seal. Ace hardware advertises it for $90 for a 5 gallon pail.

Anybody come across this and use it?
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2008, 08:49 PM
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A buddy of mine used it recently on the inside of his car, worked great and for all practical purposes it appears identical to what I mixed up.

Vince
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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 Z28
A buddy of mine used it recently on the inside of his car, worked great and for all practical purposes it appears identical to what I mixed up.

Vince

Awesome! I was worried that there wouldn't be enough of the micro balloons in the mix, but if it looks like your stuff, guess it's good to go.

Thanks a lot!
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 12:13 PM
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I would stay away from the Duplicolor so called bed liner like the plaque. It comes lifting up on everything I've seen it put on. Including the inside of my Cherokee with lots of prep.
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008, 07:57 AM
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Bed liner is a completely different animal from the insulating coating we are talking about in this thread.

FWIW
Vince
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bolt
I would stay away from the Duplicolor so called bed liner like the plaque. It comes lifting up on everything I've seen it put on. Including the inside of my Cherokee with lots of prep.
Interesting - I've had very good luck with Duplicolor bedliner coating. Did you give it a really good sanding then wash down with wax and grease remover? I used it on my car's splash shields and had trouble removing a small amount of overspray

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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 Z28
Bed liner is a completely different animal from the insulating coating we are talking about in this thread.

FWIW
Vince
Post 137 and 138? Both mention Bedliner and Duplicolor specifically.

As a base for microshperes another product that might be worth trying is Raptor Liner, made by UPOL which is a reputable European auto paint company. And can be found on Ebay for less than the cost of Heruliner. it's a two part urethane. Thus should be harder and tougher than Herculiner and sprays on with a Schutze gun looking exactly like Line-X...

I think either Herculiner or Raptor Liner would make an awesome base for ceramic microspheres. The urethane is heavy enough to provide some real sound deadening to boot. Not as much as butyl sound mats, but better than normal paint. Personally I would hesitate to use latex, as it will eventually chalk and lift and crack with exposure to higher heat like 130-200* on a firewall or trans tunnel. The moble home roof coating stuff now that might be worth a try.

Last edited by 1bolt; 03-28-2008 at 10:02 AM.
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
Interesting - I've had very good luck with Duplicolor bedliner coating. Did you give it a really good sanding then wash down with wax and grease remover? I used it on my car's splash shields and had trouble removing a small amount of overspray
Dave W
Yep, washed with simple green, and scuffed. keep in mind this went into the interior of an Cherokee where carpet had been and had never been waxed so it's even more surprising it came up like it did. If it had been the outside I would have suspected I missed some wax or something



I didn't thin it either, it got really brittle, the rust spots were there already (and no I didn't expect the duplicolor to do anything about rust) I didn't have my welder at the time. This pic was when I took the front carpet back up to patch those. And I found it lifting and cracking. It's very brittle and anywhere that the sheet metal flexed it started coming up. I've done similar with Herculiner it stays flexible and didn't lift or crack.
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  #147 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008, 10:23 AM
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OK - don't know what you scuffed it with, but you need at least 220 with 180 better. And Simple Green - it left a film that you spread around if you didn't clean it with a pre paint wax and grease remover. Your photo shows poor adhesion to the substrate.

This is some of what's in it:

Organic Compounds Present: Percent by wt:
Proprietary ethoxylated fatty alcohol < 5%
Proprietary fatty alkyl cocoamide < 5%
Propylene glycol < 1%
Propylene glycol butyl ether < 5%
Triethanolamine < 11%

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  #148 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008, 01:17 PM
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My prep didn't turn it brittle. Even if we suppose that my prep job caused it to fail to adhere. It is so brittle when cured it would crack and let moisture past even if it HAD stayed put.

I'm glad you got good results. If you can get good results from it, it might be worth the small savings as long as the part doesn't flex or you don't care about moisture getting into the fine cracks.

Which is tougher Vinyl? or Urethane?
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  #149 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2008, 01:17 AM
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alternative to Lizard Skin - on underbody of engine compartment???

All,

xnks so much for your knowledge & experience & advice here. I've read the 10 pages & feel confident about using the microspheres w/paint on inside of RV, but what I need advice on is using it on the underbody of engine compartment of Class A RV. So, the RV basically sits on top of engine more than being "around" the engine.

2 concerns:
1) What liquid can I use with the microspheres so that it will bond with the underbody w/o doing a lot of prep work, ie...sand blasting or extensive cleaning? I would like to be able to spray this on w/underbody gun.

2) What same liquid combined with microspheres can also stand up to the heat of engine.

FYI, I will probably also put Peel N Seal onto this mixture.....esp since it has foil that will help reflect the heat away.

I know http://www.hytechsales.com/ sells an additive that makes paint fire retardant, but it specifically says it is just for interior latex paint, which is the very paint that doesn't seem a good fit for this, holds moisture, etc, etc.

So, again I want to minimize the prep work. This is a up & working RV, not stripped down like most of your projects.

Any & all suggestions welcome.

xnks again.
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  #150 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2008, 07:40 AM
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The microspheres can be mixed with just about anything. For under hood projects I would think a true two part epoxy paint would suffice. Using the Peel N Seal on top of the paint under the hood will require some additional adhesion. I have found that over time on overhead or vertical surfaces the Peel N Seal will let go. Use a high grade of spray adhesive that is for high heat use ( NOT 3M #77) and you should be fine..

Vince
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