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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2008, 06:44 AM
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Rubber Undercoating for under the hood, etc?

Vince, etc,

I got ur reply last week & have been checking with HD & Lowes. The only 2 part epoxy paint I found was a concrete garage floor product by Rustoleum & 1 of those 3 products is "professional" grade that claims superior bonding, even on wood, metal, etc. Of course, it is also $100, but makes 2 gallons (1 gallon base & 1 gallon activator).

In the process of doing this, someone else recommended using rubberized undercoating & I found a local paint supply shop that sales a 1 gallon bucket of it for $40. What think about mixing the microspheres into this & spraying it under the hood, firewall, & other underbody areas?

The only issue I can see is that it will be a bit messy for engine area.

Xnks

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  #152 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2008, 07:57 AM
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Yes, the downside of using a rubberized product is the way it looks.....well like bed liner . Southern Polyurethane (SP) sells a two part epoxy that is great and is priced very reasonably.

Vince
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2008, 10:27 AM
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Rubber Undercoating for under the hood, etc?

ok, I decided to go with rubber undercoating, cause I could careless what it looks like....it is the bottom of an old RV. Got it for $39 @ paint shop, got the 2 bags of microspheres from Wicks for $20, found peel N Seal @ Lowes on clearance for $5 each (got 5 rolls) & found a degreaser paint noozle @ Harbor Freight for $10 (I couldn't find an undercoating paint gun nor did they know about one but the degreaser spray noozle looked similiar to a real undercoating gun, ie...big 1/4" spray hole & this one's tip was @ a 45 degree angle w/4' siphon hose).

I'll probably also buy a couple of cans of Rust Bullet just so things don't continue to rust under there.

So, for right @ $100 I hope to significantly reduced the heat & sound that comes thru the floor of RV.

As soon as warms up, I'm going for it. I'm even thinking about putting the Peel N Seal on the rubber undercoating while it is still a bit damp so that it can bond better w/o having to use yet another spray adhesive.

Any thoughts?
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2008, 10:53 AM
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I wouldn't use the peel n seal under anything, it will soften with heat and come hanging down. Inside the RV under the carpet maybe, also be prepared to smell it for a few weeks. I've even heard people say that on particularly hot days the asphalt smell can come back.

There's a great web site out there where all the sound deadeners are compared and tested, and peel n seal did not fair to well in any test, especially when they warmed it up stuck to a metal panel and it got goopy and sagged off.

Wish I could remember the site but I'm sure I remember finding it using the term sound deadener shootout.

I think its safe to use in floors but I wouldn't put it overhead under any circumstance.
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008, 06:00 PM
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Sound Deadner Shootout

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/which/
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008, 09:56 PM
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O.K. I have not chimed in on these sound deadener, heat shield threads before, but let's face it...........roofing products that are meant to be laid flat on top of a roof are not going to somehow magically be able to hang suspended on a sidewall or inside roof of a car during the middle of summer in any climate.

The fact of the matter is that no one product will work perfectly in every application. Heat shield, sound deadening are two completely different things for the most part, and will require different solutions for different applications.

First of all, ANYTHING you do to reduce heat infiltration or sound infiltration will help, no matter what. If you jam wadded up newspapers into every area of your car, it will help. It may not be the best, or most effective solution, but it will help.

My personal opinion is that a very thin layer of heat shield should go under a layer of normal (yes, that's right, HOUSEHOLD type re-bonded carpet padding) on the floor of a vehicle. It's good enough for your house, (which gets far more abuse that your pampered car), but not good enough for your car? You barely ever walk on your vehicle's carpet for more than a few seconds at a time, right?

You don't have to spend thousands of dollars to reduce heat or sound infiltration, but use products that were designed for the application, not roofing or insulating products that were designed for your house.

Just my humble opinion,.........do what you want. Thanks for listening to my ramblings.
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008, 11:17 PM
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Rubber Undercoating for under the hood, etc? SOLVED

Well, after re-considering rubber undercoating mixed with microspheres, the Peel N Seal (xnks to above advice), reviewing http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/which/, mulling over products to stop the normal rusting underneath the RV, an inexpensive way of adding heat deflection, & not wanting a lot of prep work, I came across what I believe to be the best solution for @ least my needs:

http://www.metalshield.com/index.html by Hy-Tech Thermal Solutions.

It seems to be an advanced under-coating for vehicles that is a 1 step solution to all the above & can even be sprayed & doesn't require a lot of prep work. Now, note a partial description:

A Rust preventive, heat insulating, sound deadening coating containing a blend of space age ceramic insulating microspheres and an industry standard setting anti-corrosion resin.
By combining the thermal heat blocking and soundproofing properties of Hy-Tech insulating ceramic microspheres, and a time tested rust preventative resin you can now not only protect your Auto, Farm equipment, RV, Industrial Storage Tanks etc from rust but also gain the additional soundproofing and heat resisting properties of Insulating Ceramic Microspheres, the NASA developed technology for blocking extremely high heat in spacecraft.
The rust preventative resin contains a dispersion of an inorganic-organic complex, oxidized petroleum and microcystalline wax in solvent.
The complex compound is very polar and forms excellent bonds with ferrous and non-ferrous metals. Metal Shield also shows excellent electrical resistivity and very low moisture vapor transmission rates.

Q: Can Metal Shield be sprayed?
A: Yes, being Thixotropic, Metal Shield sprays evenly at high and low temperatures with little change in low air pressures at the tip. Using Airless spray we recommend .017 - .019 tips size and pump pressures of 1300-1500 psi. conventional spray equipment use 10-15 psi fluid pressure and 50-60 SPI atomizing pressure.

Q: Do I have to remove All existing rust prior to applying?
A: No, Metal Shield is intended for use as a field applied maintenance coating and does not require complete removal of rust or previously applied lead based coatings on bridges and other steel surfaces.


I'm sure it isn't perfect, but it is exactly what I wanted in an affordable ($87/gal including hazmat & shipping charges) 1 step spray on process, that can even be repeated for increased performance! I'll be returning the Peel N Seal ($30), normal rubber undercoating ($40) & 1 of the 2 Spray guns I bought for this project; and I won't have to buy separate rust converter nor any aluminum faced matting & won't have to double my efforts for installation of it.

For me, a win, win solution!!
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008, 11:28 PM
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DanTwoLakes, I think you have a good point. I'm not very excited about putting asphalt shingle material in my black car. I've already measured 140 deg + on a bright sunny day up here. Down south when I had it outside while I was cleaning the garage it got hot enough you could smell the glass out gassing and the body was baked in an oven right after it was manufactured.

I got a chance to see almost that very thing you speak of in a roadster we finished. It was a 'plastic' car so very light weight doors etc. It got a 1/2 inch thick gray carpet pad on the floor from the top of the firewall to the very back of the car. The trunk had it glued to the side panels which then were mounted to the body with Christmas trees. Nothing fancy. The carpet was laid right over the top of it and mounted to the floor etc. There was no insulation at all in the doors other than the upholstered door panels. The car had a roadster top with no side windows or vent wings so it was a bit breezy. It was completely quiet inside tooling down the freeway at 60 mph. Sure there was a bit of wind noise but no engine heat or exhaust heat and the exhaust system was quite close to the floor for most of the bottom of the car. You could hear the exhaust note but it was from behind the car not through the floor. We were able to talk in a normal voice ( if you call tooling down the highway in a brand new roadster normal haha) We were pretty excited and impressed.

It was no Cadillac but still it was very well dampened. Completely adequate and fun to drive.

I rode in a Camaro hot rod last summer with just the thinnest of carpeting and no real attempt to insulate anything and it was just plain awful and obnoxious to ride in. On a cool evening in a matter of minutes it was blistering hot on the floorboards and carrying on a conversation was out of the question. A little insulation would have gone a long way in this car.

Last edited by bentwings; 04-16-2008 at 11:57 PM.
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2008, 10:35 AM
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alt to lizard skin........

Hi,first understand that im not a scientist or engineer,i took the doors off of my 48 ford coupe,cleaned inside of doors with 80 grit,by hand,sprayed phosphoric acid into doors.(2 times)mixed baking soda,and washed inside of doors good. let dry in sun.put 2 coats of 2k primer in doors. i had 3 gallons of kool seal,,water soluble, (left over from roof job) i mixed 1 1/2 lbs of micro baloons into it. (aircraft spruce and speciality co) was about as thick as pancake batter. i sprayed 3 coats inside of doors(2 hrs between coats) using undercoat gun (ebay $15.00) after letting 3rd coat dry (in the sun) for 1 day. i added a special bubble wrap,used in custom vans,(i dont remember the name) sprayed door and wrap 2 times with trim adhesive,(very hard to get in doors without sticking to itself.(take your time)put doors in direct sun. i have a non contact infra red thermometer (NAPA),, on the outside of door (gray primer) temp was 145 degrees. inside temp was 95 degrees. thats a 50 degree drop.i did this test probably 10 times with same results.i could not believe it myself...one question i have,can i spray this mixture over bedcoat material???( the inside of coupe is sprayed very good)
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:05 AM
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Bobby,
I have found that Kool Seal sticks to anything even where you do not want it to stick..Should stick to bedliner just fine..

Sam
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2008, 07:06 AM
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More questions for ya Vince!

Great Thread! Thanks for getting this rolling.

After reading this yesterday I went to HomeDepot and did some looking.

I bought a can of Sta-Kool Elastomeric Roof Coating and had it tinted to gray. This is the stuff some of you have used I believe and it's ok to use, correct?

I'm wondering about the peel and seal though? Rather than a tar product I went into the duct work section and found a product made by Frost King for sealing duct work. It has a self adhesive backing, is 1/8" thick Vinyl Foam with Foil backing that has an R-3 rating. It comes in a roll 1'x15'. Seems like it'd be a good sound control product and it even gives you some insulation value. What do you think??

Thanks!

Last edited by 71'Nova 383; 05-07-2008 at 12:14 PM. Reason: added info
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2008, 08:19 AM
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I just went and bought the complete Lizard Skin package ... @ the NSRA Nats South this past weekend. $446 for one bucket of the heat barrier and one bucket of the sound barrier and their special gun.

I will report back on the installation and the results ...

Deuce ...
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 12:44 PM
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I did the 'alternative' today in just the passenger compartment and using car body tinted (bright orange) Home Depot exterior latex paint and the microspheres. I gotta say one thing - I sure am glad it will be upholstered over - it's u-g-l-y . Kinda wish that I had gone with a more neutral color like a medium gray.....but. There is about enough mix left for one additional coat and will slobber that down tomorrow morning. I do have a gallon of 'spheres left as the roadster body really doesn't need two. I'll offer them on the "for sale" link here in a few days. Don't even ask about selling it based on this post.

Mixing 1qt of paint (at least the HD stuff) with a gallon of the 'spheres is way too thick. You need at least enough water to be brushable. It wont roller down well. Now - I just hope it works

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  #164 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008, 10:53 AM
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Foam & Mix Ratio

Quote:
Originally Posted by 71'Nova 383
Great Thread! Thanks for getting this rolling.

After reading this yesterday I went to HomeDepot and did some looking.

I bought a can of Sta-Kool Elastomeric Roof Coating and had it tinted to gray. This is the stuff some of you have used I believe and it's ok to use, correct?

I'm wondering about the peel and seal though? Rather than a tar product I went into the duct work section and found a product made by Frost King for sealing duct work. It has a self adhesive backing, is 1/8" thick Vinyl Foam with Foil backing that has an R-3 rating. It comes in a roll 1'x15'. Seems like it'd be a good sound control product and it even gives you some insulation value. What do you think??

Thanks!
Vince:

Never heard from anyone about my above post, about using Vinyl Foam?

Also,
I'm just about to do mine this coming week but I'm left wondering what the right mixture is. Tom, 38Dodbiz, stated he mixed 2.5 gal of coating with 2 gallons of Micro Ballons? That's a far cry from 80% by volume as stated in other posts. I'm sure I'll find out when I'm mixing it but it sounds like it's not possible to mix a gallon of Micro Ballons with a quart of coating, ie...latex or Elastomeric Roof Coating?

Thanks.
Chad

Last edited by 71'Nova 383; 05-15-2008 at 10:53 AM. Reason: added
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71'Nova 383
Vince:

Never heard from anyone about my above post, about using Vinyl Foam?

Also,
I'm just about to do mine this coming week but I'm left wondering what the right mixture is. Tom, 38Dodbiz, stated he mixed 2.5 gal of coating with 2 gallons of Micro Ballons? That's a far cry from 80% by volume as stated in other posts. I'm sure I'll find out when I'm mixing it but it sounds like it's not possible to mix a gallon of Micro Ballons with a quart of coating, ie...latex or Elastomeric Roof Coating?

Thanks.
Chad
A gallon of micro ballons WILL NOT mix with a quart of Home Depot's exterior latex. A quart and a half along with a couple ounces of water is more like it.


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