[327amc]

Originally Posted by Rayvn

does anyone know if there is such a thing as too much of this?

Yes. There is such a thing as too much. It depends on the strength of the resin your putting it in. And the ratio of MicroSpheres to resin.

If you put too much in, your ratio of MicroSpheres to resin will be to great, and over time the resin wont be able to hold them all in. You would probably get some loss of adhesion. If not, then some chalky flakeyness as the resin is no longer able to hold the solids in suspension.

I do not know what the max mix ratio is for any given system (latex, acrylics, etc) just wanted to let you know.

I would suggest if you wanted a really thick mix, us a 2k system to add them into. The crosslinking action would help hold the max amount of microspheres in through all kinds of conditions and temp changes.

For example, if you added 4oz to 1qt of laquer clear, and 4oz to 1qt of activated 2k clear, you would have much better longevity with the 2k clear.

[Rayvn]

yes i found out my initial mixture was too thick, when it dried it was soft and powdery , luckily soft enough i could just wire brush it off and reaply

[Rayvn]

did anyone spray this on the underside of the roof?

my gun wont shoot up!

should i just brush it or roll it on?

[59 wagon man]

WENT TO A STORE IN SOUTH FLORIDA CALLED "FIBERGLASS COATINGS iNC" WEBSITE WWW./FGCI.COM. LO AND BEHOLD SHERES ALL KINDS- CERAMIC MICROSHERES, GLASS BALLOONS,PHENOLIC MICROSPHERES- WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

[SMF Speed&Custom]

I have been reading up on this thread for quite some time and just about ready to shoot the inside of my 63 Chevy II Wagon once I am finished stripping the entire car down. I have a few quick questions though. Do you guys think that maybe bed liner would be better? I was thinking about shooting SPI bed liner under the outside of the car and the entire inside floors, roof, inside the doors, tailgate, etc. Or if not then if I prep and shoot SPI Epoxy primer on the floors and inside the doors and THEN use the microspheres with paint, will it stick and do fine here?
As far as paint goes to mix the micro balloons with, will plain Nason single stage base coat work or what kind of automotive paint will work besides floor paint or house paint?
I plan to do the entire floor, firewall, inside the doors, inside the tailgate, the inside roof, under the dash, etc. Will it seal out water as well for rust proofing? I am wanting to stop the slight surface rust that is there now from spreading and I am thinking as long as I seal it with SPI epoxy primer and then this paint mixed with these microspheres, it will work???...
Oppinions would be greatly appreciated!

[SMF Speed&Custom]

After looking on some other sites I have decided that my best bet is NO bedliner on the inside but one thing I am wondering, can I use SPI Epoxy primer on the inside and THEN use some kind of singlestage cheap NASON Dupont paint with microspheres in it and roll it or spray it on with SPI's bedliner gun? If I do this will it seal off rust or keep the little surface rust that is there from spreading? This is my biggest concern really. I see that Metal Shield's product that NASA uses does everything including rust proofing, would this be better to just buy that or actually make my own?
I plan to sand and prep the best I can, por 15 the deep seems and fill with a two part seam sealer and then use this alternative Lizard Skin.

[Deuce]

Lizard Skin is just NOT that expensive ... IMHO
Rather than mess around and try to find something that might be as good ( for maybe half the money ) I went ahead and bought LIZARD SKIN.

I had already sprayed the back side of the door skin with Lizard Skin before installing the DynaMat ... but the door panel area was not up to my liking. Old paint and new paint just did not look right ( even if only myself and the upholstery man would see it ) .



So I taped up the panel and sprayed it with Lizard Skin also.





No runs in the Lizard Skin on the door area but it sure will run on the slick masking paper.

One container of the Lizard Skin covered my firewall, the floor and both the quarter panels. Also the inner door skins and the outer panel skins. The roof also. Two light coats ... and I had a small amount left.

I bought the 2 gallon container ... for $135 @ Nats South NSRA Rod Run ... and I got the special applicator gun also for $120. So for $255 .. I had everything to do the job.

IMHO ... if you are getting your homemade brew concoction to spray thru a regular gun ... it is way too thin and most likely not do what you want it to.

[SMF Speed&Custom]

My plan was to use a bedliner sprayer to spray the stuff on and then a brush and roller to get to the areas it cannot reach.

[krazeyone]

i think alot of you have good ideas, but it one of those old sayings "a dime chasing a dollar". i am not trying to persuade anybody, and i'm the first person to try to save a buck. everybody who used lizzardskin or that coolcar stuff sais it works awsome, and everytime i try to cut a corner it bites me in the ***. i found a person that sells lizzardskin he is on e-bay, i baught a kit today. 4 gallons of the ceramic lizzardskin and a deluxe spray gun kit with it, for $325.00. thats less than what lizardskin told me it cost, and free ups ground!!! you can't beat that with a stick! everybody else wants $359.00 +shipping! just food for thaught, when you add those microspheres to latex or all those other paints, it might keep it cooler but won't it melt or catch on fire if it gets hot? i was just going to use roll on bedliner but, i thaught i'd use this stuff on the ceiling under the headliner on the floor and firewall and in trunk. the gentleman told me i won't need to use any sound deatening material this stuff would be more than enough.

[SMF Speed&Custom]

I am still up in the air about this stuff too. I have a 68 Lincoln Continental that I just bought new carpet for and already stripped the interior. I need one floor pan patch and plan to POR-15 the entire floor and thought about throwing some of these micro-spheres in them and and use Dynamat and jute matting under the carpet for extra sound deadening and unsulating. Has ANYONE here done the POR-15 with ceramic micro spheres yet? Also are the Wicks Micro Balloons ceramic or the cheap foam type of balloons?
Thanks for any info guys. I am ready to get started on this whole deal next weekend!

[dinger]

I did the por 15 on areas of the floors of my coupe, following the directions, of course. Surface rust that I didn't want to get any worse while I was doing other things on the car. I used the home made lizard skin that Vince provided me the formula, latex paint and the micro spheres, it's been sitting almost a year, no other paints applied, everything is tight. So my answer would be yes, it can be done.

[302 Z28]

Originally Posted by krazeyone

i think alot of you have good ideas, but it one of those old sayings "a dime chasing a dollar". i am not trying to persuade anybody, and i'm the first person to try to save a buck. everybody who used lizzardskin or that coolcar stuff sais it works awsome

Please read the intro to the thread, I made it perfectly clear that I had no problems with the way LizardSkin or Cool Car works, in fact they are top notch products just over priced. Reverse engineer these products and they can be duplicated for much less. After all they were not developed for auto use, and only found their way into the market because someone noticed they would also work great on cars.

Lots of people have read this thread and quite a few have tried it. I have not seen anyone regret using the alternative.

Vince

[bentwings]

Since this thread got dredged up I might as well ask the question I was going to ask.

My car is all 'glass so I need a paint that will adhere to this easily. Because of the roof bows and other interior supports
it will be tough to really sand or scuff all the surfaces I need to cover. Plus the wiring and all the other stuff is already installed. I'll have to brush whatever paint is used. I don't think the house paint will stick very well to the interior fiberglass. I can get some standard automotive primer possibly something used with the urethane paints and just mix it really well with the micro baloons. I already have a big tube of them.

Do you think this will work ok??

I'm really interested in noise reduction but radiated heat reduction will be a plus.

[DJ3100]

I believe I have read all of this post a couple times, all the other posts on Lizard Skin and the Wiki ceramic. I still don't know if the micro balloons really do anything.

Chad (71 Nova'383) tested LS alternative (post 169, 172, 173, 179) and found that by itself it provided very little reduction of temperature inside the vehicle. He reports that it did provide some sound deadening, but so does rubberized undercoat , bed liner and possibly thick paint without micro balloons.

Shine says it works, but he still uses foam over it and works with fiberglass vehicles. Would the same foam and undercoat or bed liner work just as well?

Intuitively, most of us would say anything that is 8-20 mils think would not be much of a temperature barrier. Hy-Tech says micro balloon technology is used on the shuttle heat shields, but we think they are at least 1 inch thick. If the OEM's could just spray on micro balloons with thick paint and leave out all the sound deadening and insulating materials, wouldn't it be cheaper and lighter? Why aren't they using it or are they?

My real question is, does anyone have any real world evidence that Lizard Skin, Metal Shield or any of the micro balloon alternatives actually make a difference that is worth the trouble and the additional cost?

Thanks,
Dan

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by DJ3100

My real question is, does anyone have any real world evidence that Lizard Skin, Metal Shield or any of the micro balloon alternatives actually make a difference that is worth the trouble and the additional cost?

Thanks,
Dan

I never drove my 3W much ... before installing the Lizard Skin ... ( One trip to Charlotte NC GoodGuys event in 2007 ... about 275 miles round trip ). That was with the Lizard Skin sprayed and no DynaMat. Since then, I have installed a good bit of DynaMat also . But finished with the upholstery, my little coupe is as quiet and tight as my wife's new Cadillac DTS. The Vintage Air will freeze you OUT ... ( and I live in the Hot, Humid South ) . The heater can make you sweat . I contribute this to the Lizard Skin and DynaMat. I will never do another car without the Lizard Skin and DynaMat.



You can see the construction of the 32 3W in my project journal here ...

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jour...ge=1&reverse=1