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  #226 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2010, 09:06 AM
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I don't have time to read all 15 pages of this thread,, so I don't know if theis has been mentioned somewhere before,,

But Tap Plastics also sells the microcells , might be a different name but still the same produce

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  #227 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2010, 09:26 AM
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I agree that there is some optimum mixture that is desirable. The trick is reaching or discovering that formula and also having a product that is viscous enough for application and good adherence. I tried mixing as much micro spheres as possible to a gallon of exterior latex but it was next to impossible to spray the stuff and it didn't want to dry properly.

Vince
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  #228 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2010, 10:42 AM
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Engelhard (now BASF i guess) has 4 different sizes of glass microspheres.

"Prizmalite Ultrafine glass microspheres"
4micron P2011SL $39/kg
10micron P2015SL $38/kg
38micron P2043SL $9/kg
50micron metallized glass microspheres P2453BTA $75/kg


The last time I made some sound deadener messin around, I used 4micron 12% by vol and 50micron 8% by volume in a latex neutral base.
I mixed my arm off. In the end it seemed like it could have held more, but I didnt have a pressure pot at the time. When you go shopping for paint, find the thickest neutral base. No pigment. Then color the last coat if needed.

I have 4kg of of P2011SL left. $20/kg if anyone wants some.

I also did another method using glass beads from highway paint. These are much bigger (and probably not 'beads'). For the sake of this I will say 150-200microns.? I sprayed an offroad only 4x4 with these for visual purposes. I sprayed white base, then mixed some in clear. But these are so heavy, the clear wouldnt hold hardly any, or else I would have had to spray 30coats to get the desired concentration. So I would spray on a slow clear, then use my flakebuster and hose on the glass beads. Worked much better. I did this till the concentration was 100%. Probably 4coats.
As far as sound deadener, that definitely worked, although that wasnt the intended purpose. I figured durability would suck, but its been great so far. If you rub something against the paint job like say a chain or jack, it just glides on the glass beads. Feels pretty kewl. But, if a moron loses his brakes on a hill and t bones you, it does fail.
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  #229 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2012, 02:31 PM
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I wanted to try and revive this thread to see if there are anymore updates. I was shopping lizard skin and Second Skin's Spectrum and felt that there had to be updates.. I contact Henry.com on thier henry 287 and they did not know of anyone adding micro spheres. In the time that has elapsed, is there a formula of Elastomeric paint, micro sheres (size and quantity), ceramic additives, calcium carbonate, titanium, etc..etc..etc.. I want to try something proven or close to the comercial versions.. Any help would be greatly appreciated..
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  #230 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2012, 03:59 PM
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I read this whole thing over a while back and I was going to do the inside of my fiberglass car. I even have some micro balloons I got from an aircraft supply. My main concern was that I could not be assured that I could get a paint compatible surface...clean enough and roughed up enough for the paint mix to stick. Obviously it would turn out to be a mess in the end. So I did not proceed.

I think if you could get a good surface ready for paint and etching primer I'd mix up a slurry of micro balloons and try a small area first. Be sure you use a filter mask mixing the micro ballons. You don't want to breathe any of this stuff.

I'm quite sure it will work.
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  #231 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2012, 04:50 PM
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About 1 1/2 yrs. ago I did a '32 Victoria f/glass body with the micro spheres and a good quality exterior house paint from Home Depot. It was pretty much the thickness of pancake batter, no way to spray it. I just took my time and used a brush for the tight spots, a 4" and 8" roller for everything else. Once dried it stuck on very good and really did cut down on the tin can thump, also made the interior look a helluva lot nicer.

I never did get to put dynamat or an equivalent on top of it to see how well that material would stick to it but using a roller I think would have given a good base to adhere to. Total cost was $16 for the ceramic spheres and $18 for the paint.....well worth it and I'll do it again on the next body.
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  #232 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2012, 07:24 PM
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I would think that the Elastomeric latex paint (such as Henry 287 would be a better paint for mixing these glass spheres. My understand is that the Elastomeric coverts sound waves to heat.. Is that not correct??
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  #233 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 10:21 AM
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I've used the stuff twice now, 2 different cars, it works well. The really noticeable difference is long drives, very little heat in the floorboards. I use the same formula as Vince provided, (thanks Vince!) no problems after 2 years. I borrowed a undercoating sprayer from a friend, one gallon 2 coated everything I needed to spray on my coupe.
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  #234 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinger
I've used the stuff twice now, 2 different cars, it works well. The really noticeable difference is long drives, very little heat in the floorboards. I use the same formula as Vince provided, (thanks Vince!) no problems after 2 years. I borrowed a undercoating sprayer from a friend, one gallon 2 coated everything I needed to spray on my coupe.
What base paint did you use? Also interested in the quantity of each size glass sphere if you don't mind.. I was going to mix up a batch this weekend..
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  #235 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 11:31 AM
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Wiki article based on this thread: Ceramic insulation.
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  #236 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddwallace
What base paint did you use? Also interested in the quantity of each size glass sphere if you don't mind.. I was going to mix up a batch this weekend..
I used Dulux exterior house paint, bought a gallon of a messed up color for 8 bucks. Mixed a batch according to Vinces (302 Z28) instructions, I believe it is in the knowledge base, Here is a quote:
A gallon bag of the spheres cost about $6.00. You can see the potential cost savings here. A one gallon pail of exterior latex house paint, add some Micro Balloons to it and you basically have the same thing as Lizard Skin or Cool-Car for a mere fraction of the price. A 2 gallon pail of Lizard Skin is about $160

I believe the price is about 8 bucks for the micro-spheres now. Do a google search, I get mine from an ebay supplier. A mixed gallon will go a long way!
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  #237 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 12:10 PM
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Here's some pics......sorry could only upload one ?? of the '32 Body I did a while back....the color is optional
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  #238 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinger
I used Dulux exterior house paint, bought a gallon of a messed up color for 8 bucks. Mixed a batch according to Vinces (302 Z28) instructions, I believe it is in the knowledge base, Here is a quote:
A gallon bag of the spheres cost about $6.00. You can see the potential cost savings here. A one gallon pail of exterior latex house paint, add some Micro Balloons to it and you basically have the same thing as Lizard Skin or Cool-Car for a mere fraction of the price. A 2 gallon pail of Lizard Skin is about $160

I believe the price is about 8 bucks for the micro-spheres now. Do a google search, I get mine from an ebay supplier. A mixed gallon will go a long way!


So you mixed a gallon of the spheres and a gallon of house paint to make 2 gallons total, or the spheres just thickened the gallon of paint?
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  #239 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 12:50 PM
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No you get a little over a gallon (due to displacement) of a consistancy not unlike pancake batter. You can make it thinner if you desire by adding water.....to a water based paint of course.
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  #240 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 12:55 PM
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In other words, you use a larger container and mix the two 1 gallon components together to make about 1 1/4 gallons?
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