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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2007, 04:38 PM
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Great feedback HEARTBEAT!!

We can sit around an conjecture until the cows come home, but only real "try it, see what happens, and report the results" is really worth squat!

I'm still at least a couple of weeks away from being able to do something similar with the HyTech Microspheres, but will provide whatever feedback I can as soon as I can.

I am rally anxious to try some different "carriers" - especially automotive grade and heat Resistance paint as suggested by RAMBO_THE_DOG.

texastomeh

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2007, 05:30 PM
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Thanks for the feedback Heartbeat, good write up. I am not quite ready to drive my 34 yet, but I also had a dramatic sound change when tapping on the outside of the car. If I get a minimum 20 degree differential, plus the Peel and Seal that will be fantastic. I knew there was nothing magical about Lizard Skin.

Vince
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2007, 06:00 PM
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Thanks for the feedback,
When I was putting the peel and seal on the inside of my cab I placed a halogen light up against the firewall and let it set for a hour or so and the difference was 50*+ cooler on the inside with the point and shoot temp. gauge. I also was able to get some of this material in the doors and that changed the sound of the doors closing from a tin can to a solid thump when closing, so if you haven't yet, don't forget the doors !! Now that I have gone through the summer heat with a BLACK truck in the desert it dosen't make a difference how much insulation you have when it is setting in the sun for the day it still reads 130*+ inside and outside!! But the A/C takes a little longer to cool and it stays cool !!
MY 2 Pesos!!
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2007, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302/Z28
Thanks for the feedback Heartbeat, good write up. I am not quite ready to drive my 34 yet, but I also had a dramatic sound change when tapping on the outside of the car. If I get a minimum 20 degree differential, plus the Peel and Seal that will be fantastic. I knew there was nothing magical about Lizard Skin.

Vince

So your idea is to use both the microspheres in the elastomeric coating and then add P & S to it as well?

I suppose more "couldn't hurt."

Are you just doubling up for more results?
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007, 06:39 AM
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Yes, I think the Peel and Seal is adding quite a bit of insulating and sound deadening qualities as opposed to just the micro spheres....it can't hurt.

Vince
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Old 01-26-2007, 07:13 AM
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Vince and all,
What is Peel and Seal?
And where is it found?
I still have my floor and doors to do and if I can improve the mixture I would like to try.
Thanks
Heartbeat
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007, 08:38 AM
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use epoxy as the carrier.....or epoxy all bare metal before you use latex

all latex paints are designed to "breath" and have virtually no oxygen barrier properties, they tend to be hydroscopic and actually attract and hold moisture......that's why they work great on a porous surface like wood...that's why metal rusts with just a latex coating

the only insulating value in mobile home roof coating is radiant heat reflection due to a light color

in simplest terms, adding the air filled spheres your making a closed cell "styrofoam" blanket....no doubt/no question what the insulating "R" value is on a 1/8" thick styrofoam coffee cup.....what do they claim is the "R" value at 10mm (thick as a business card) using "ceramic" cells

Peel and Seal (foil backed 1/8" buytl rubber) doesn't insulate at all, the rubber absorbs and holds more heat inside the car.....does work great for sound deadening....does work great to fill gaps to keep the A/C air in the cabin and not lost to the trunk etc
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007, 08:39 AM
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Peel and Seal is a roofing product found at the usual suspects that provide roofing materials..It is a thin rubbery kind of stuff with an aluminum backing and a paper that is peeled off and then the stuff is stuck on..used for roof patches and around flashing and such..about 15.00 for a roll as I remember and it sticks real well..

On the mixing of mirco-ballons I think I woud use a good quality exterior latex paint as a carrier..I have painted some metal buildings with that stuff and it seems to hold up just fine exposed to the elements,,Should shoot just fine if one has a gun with a big tip like a 2.5 or 3.0..like the ones we use to spray the high build primers or gel coat..

Good stuff guys..

Sam
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007, 09:15 AM
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alternative to Lizard Skin

This is very interesting. I wish I'd known this a couple of years ago.

I used a peel and stick in my car. My wife and I agree the car seem quieter and cooler. Are we mistaken?

Red65Mustang, are your comments based on fact or opinion ?

Thanks, 454Rattler
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007, 11:30 AM
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No you are not mistaken, Peel and Seal is nearly identical to Dynamat. At the very least it contributes to sound deadening and DOES have some insulating qualities despite what the naysayers claim. If it isn't worth a flip for our use then Dynamat isn't either as far as I'm concerned.

Vince
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007, 12:04 PM
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I'm sure you all have seen this and read it but just in case...

http://www.hotrodscustomstuff.com/SR...nsulation.html

regards
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007, 03:06 PM
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454rattler,

the "fault" of Peel and Seal as an insulator is it depends on the heavy foil face containing and "conducting" the heat in the metal and rubber to metal someplace outside the car with air moving over it to dissapate the heat, no air flow=almost no insulating value
ex:
a hot rubber radiator hose is very close to actual coolant temp (the rubber has almost 0 insulating value), wrap a single layer of kitchen foil smooth and tight on it and the aluminum surface is 50% cooler, the heat that was radiating from the rubber has moved on to the radiator with the coolant flow,
turn off the motor and the foil will get hot due to no flow

as opposed to a true insulator like aluminized mylar "bubble wrap" or styrofoam which would keep the surface cool without air flow (or coolant flow on the hose) due to the air cells ability to resist heat transfer for a longer period of time

footnote: if Lizard Skin "aka" ceramic spheres only drops temp "10 to 20 degrees" as the link above says.....I'll pass....

Last edited by red65mustang; 01-27-2007 at 05:03 AM.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
454rattler,
footnote: if Lizard Skin "aka" ceramic spheres only drops temp "10 to 20 degrees" as the link above says.....I'll pass....
And I will pass on the bubble wrap also. I do not want to feel that under my carpet. Instead I will be putting a pad of 3/8" high density Neoprene foam under my carpet. The pad will completely cover the floor board and the Peel and Seal.

Vince
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2007, 06:30 AM
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Vince,
"hi" density neoprene foam is a conveyor belt, no flex to conform to the floors

"low" density neoprene is a skin diving suit, very flexible, be sure it is closed cell foam.....open cell= a sponge for holding moisture

a thought: buy a small piece of the neoprene and heat it up and smell it to be sure it has no oder which will accumulate in the carpet

a (attached) picture is worth a thousand words....Lowes aluminized bubble wrap insulation "bubbles" are .25" diameter and almost contacting each other and the material is .25" thick......
it is "flat" on both sides (+,-, .010" peaks and valleys?)...you won't "feel the bubbles" under the carpet at all

no question for me that there are materials more effective than bubble wrap which I judge as 80% effective for thermal insulation in Aug in FL in traffic...and more effective (open cell foam) sound deadners than Peel and Seal.....but... extra $$$$/benefit just don't add up for me.....

footnote from the Lizard Skin site: at .040 to .060" thickness (max recommended) they claim a 20-30* temp drop and 10-12db noise drop...those numbers appear reasonable to me......because their material does contain open and closed cells...."ouch!" $100 for a 5'X5' AREA....
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Last edited by red65mustang; 01-27-2007 at 07:45 AM.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2007, 08:41 AM
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Agreed, good points on the bubble wrap. Yep, Lizard Skin is vastly overpriced for what it offers. I got my Neoprene foam from the Foam Factory and it is very pliable and has no odor. I am not really sure it is high density, but it is much more dense than the Volara minicell foam I also got from The Foam factory.

Vince
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