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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2007, 10:16 PM
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well guys i took your advice as the price on using lizard skin inside and underneath my 59 wagon would have been somewhere around $1000. so i spent about $135 and got enough spheres from hy-tech coatings to do they say 12 gallons of paint . well i "ll check the homedepot/lowes mistake bins and see what i can find.

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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 03:36 AM
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A (strong!) recommendation if you are going to use a water base latex on metal (painted or bare) mixed with the spheres....(your breaking the "latex" application rules applying such a thick layer)

First apply a single coat of Zinser brand solvent based (alcohol) (not the water based Zinser) (not Kilz bran) primer/stain blocker (HD,Lowes) to make a bond to stand up to the heat and wet

how good can Zinser bond latex to something,,,,,you can paint elcheapo latex onto bare glass if it has a primer coat of Zinser on it....you can paint latex on Formica with a coat of Zinser

it's super thin so a quart should do a whole car, just brush it on with a throw away brush

"if" the paint and spheres layer "blisters" and lifts (due to moisture and/or heat and or vibration) it creates a perfect environment for rust because latex holds moisture big time...what ever the daily relative humidity happens to be....that is the amount of humidity in your 10 mils of latex coating

I like the spheres idea....just don't like the idea of using a water base latex as the carrier....just had one more negative thought: it's gona get dirty, dirty damp latex inside a car doesn't smell real good (do a test?)

I would put down a layer of Duplicolor spray bedliner first (cheap, and very easy, great product!)...it is a 99.999% moisture barrier if I "had to use" latex to be compatible with the spheres

Last edited by red65mustang; 05-19-2007 at 05:19 AM.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 04:49 PM
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A side note: You do not have to use latex paint. The micro spheres will mix with any paint, enamel, catalyzed urethane, whatever.

Vince
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:31 AM
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Latex & Spheres

After I finished all my metal work on the floor; replacing metal, welding etc (or so I thought); I coated all metal inside and out with an epoxy primer. Then applied the sphers and latex to the inside of the cab with brushes, rollers, using whatever I had. I use exterior latex paint as the binder. It works for years on my exterior house and trim it ought to work on the inside of my cab where I am expecting little or no water. I had some left over Ford blue impliment enamel which I painted over part of my work. It does seal the latex but I'm not sure it's necessary. Right now it's just an experiment.
No doubt other binders will work as well perhaps better. I started with the latex and stayed with it. I am pleased with the thickness of my application as I believe that provides effeciency. It withstands heat. I scorched it with my plasma cutter only right where I was cutting, even the epoxy primer disappeared with that treatment.
It's a hobby, have fun!
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Old 05-14-2007, 08:16 AM
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Exterior latex will work exceptionally well. After it is dry it is impervious to water, just like it would be on your house.

Glad you liked the way it worked, saved me a ton of money vs the brand name.

Vince
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Old 05-17-2007, 11:29 AM
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Afternoon all! I just registered here and found this thread very interesting. I was considering lizard skin for my 86 camaro build but this is ten times cheaper and I can do it myself.

My question is can these microspheres be use with POR 15 paints? The reason I ask is that POR 15 is very itchy when it comes to surface prep (in my findings). If the surface is not prepped well it will peel off in 1 giant sheet as opposed to flaking. I know the surface will need to be prepped well, but will this have an effect on the bonding process of the paint?

Just curious. Thanks!
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:57 PM
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Paint bonding

Spartyon,
I would not mix the spheres into the first strata of paint. I would prep my metal and use a product that adheres very well. I used an epoxy primer on my project. Then I would add your spheres mixture.

I have no experience with the POR 15 product. I know they are a quality company and one should have great results following their directions. It doesn't have to be expensive to be good.

Enjoy your project!
Heartbeat
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2007, 09:22 PM
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i have no personal experiance with por 15. BUT i do with www.zerorust.com i like it MUCH better. my buddy had lots of problems with por15.

im curious if i put down my zero-rust, then top coat with my enamel color and microspheres, how well would THAT work???

my project is a 42 dodge.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2007, 04:38 AM
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to all,

to keep metal from rusting (under your spheres) you must eliminate atleast one of three elements:

electric charge=all the electrical devices (IGN/AC/lights/etc) use the body as a ground path to the batt neg....the body is carrying a charge at all times...even static electricity will cause rust....

oxygen=to make steel you force oxygen into iron....that makes it chemically unstable, it wants to revert back to iron...."rust" is simply the original iron ore

moisture and dirt=are the "ionizing" liquid agent that allows transfer the oxygen atoms out of the steel surface in the presence of a electric charge so it can turn back into iron ore

best steel protection methods I know:

2-3 coats of 2 part epoxy=99.99% moisture and oxygen barrier.....grabs great to bare or painted steel....nothing wrong with brushing it on to parts that are hidden like floors

duplicolor bed liner spray ($8 Walmart) eliminates all three elements....it is PVC based so it is also an excellent electrical insulator as well as a 99.99% moisture and oxygen barrier at 5mils+ thick....on a 60 grit surface it grabs like a SOB after 3 days....if it does get scratched, just wash it with soap and water (409) and respray, the new coat "re-wets" the old coat and they melt together....sprays very clean, no overspray, wipe off boo boo's immediately with lacquer thinner or it can be a beeetch to rub off....also acts as a sound deadner applied thick (not great but helps)

with either put down under the spheres coat....use any paint you want

old cars flex like crazy....both of these coatings stay flexible forever to reduce the chance of the coating cracking....

Last edited by red65mustang; 05-19-2007 at 05:22 AM.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2007, 07:30 AM
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This is awesome. Thanks for all the great info and research.
Now my question,
I have about 10 kilo's of Glass microsperes laying around i ordered from Engelhard a couple years ago. But i have 4 different sizes.
4micron, 10mic, 38mic, and 50mic.
What size would be best to use? Obviously, the 50mic is too big. Its nearly the size in roadsigns, and road paint. Which, i also have a 50lb bad of the glass spheres that are used in road paint aswell. They are about 200mic i believe.?

Im going to mix mine into SPI epoxy, for sound deadening purposes.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2007, 06:08 AM
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coating

I normally stay in the eng section, but this discussion has come home. I know about the micro balloons. this is good info. almost jumped on the lizard skin when it first came out.
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Old 06-01-2007, 05:12 PM
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IMHO, this is the most informative thread I've read on this site in many a moon. Quit coming here for some time. Good stuff, thanks.

MrB
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2007, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 327amc
This is awesome. Thanks for all the great info and research.
Now my question,
I have about 10 kilo's of Glass microsperes laying around i ordered from Engelhard a couple years ago. But i have 4 different sizes.
4micron, 10mic, 38mic, and 50mic.
What size would be best to use? Obviously, the 50mic is too big. Its nearly the size in roadsigns, and road paint. Which, i also have a 50lb bad of the glass spheres that are used in road paint aswell. They are about 200mic i believe.?

Im going to mix mine into SPI epoxy, for sound deadening purposes.
The ones to use are finer than talcum powder. I do not know the size, but you can go online to Wicks Aircraft Supply and look them up and I believe they tell you the size.

Glad you guys are finding this thread valuable.

Vince
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2007, 08:01 PM
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micro balloons

Vince,
Are these micro balloons the same as the glass beads I use in my bead blast cabinet?

GREAT P47!!
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Old 07-03-2007, 11:30 PM
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Reading the whole thread if very informative. Questions though that have been unanswered. Has anyone mixed the hy-tech beads with POR??? Has anyone used the paint from Hy-tech and how did it work??? Looking at doing one or the other. Replacing my floor pans, and want to top coat it with POR, and if I can just mix the beads in, that would be great, or top coat it with the Hy-tech paint would work too. just curious what results anyone got with either combination.
Thanks
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