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alternative to Lizard Skin

484K views 341 replies 84 participants last post by  39 master 
#1 ·
Since RB's Obsolete had the Cool-Car ceramic insulation on backorder and did not inform me after 3 weeks of waiting on it I have done some research. Seems all the high priced ceramic paint on insulating materials aka Lizard Skin, Cool-Car and such are a simple mixture of an exterior latex paint with ceramic micro spheres added to it. Having been a radio control aircraft enthusiast I have used ceramic spheres mixed with epoxy to form various fillets on model aircraft. I would buy these ceramic spheres (Micro Balloons is what they are called) in bulk from either Aircraft Spruce or Wicks Aircraft Supply. A gallon bag of the spheres cost about $6.00. You can see the potential cost savings here. A one gallon pail of exterior latex house paint, add some Micro Balloons to it and you basically have the same thing as Lizard Skin or Cool-Car for a mere fraction of the price. A 2 gallon pail of Lizard Skin is about $160 :pain:

Vince
 
#289 ·
Home Made Lizzard Skin.

After looking at the cost of lizzard skin. I decided to make my own. One gallon of acrylic latex paint and a gallon of micro ballons. I was a little doubtfull about this ,until the owner of a local hot rod shop was using the homemade brew on his own car and invited me over to his shop, and witness the application. I applied one mist coat and two heavier coats.
The results were great. Suprising just how short a time it took to dry.
Over this I applied hush made and the results were what I was looking for.
The car is so much quieter. and a heck of a lot cheaper. Yep I would use this again. One of the nice things about it as it will not burn. I sprayed 3 layers on a test panel. Let it cure, scraped some off held a match to it. The flames just dies out immediately It will not support combustion.
Couldn't be happier with the results.
Brian.
 
#290 ·
Hi Rise...
Just a couple questions...
Sounds like you sprayed it on right..??
Did your Hot Rod guy apply it straight to the metal first, then the hush mat over that.... or vise versa.

I have put the mat down on the sides and roof,.. but not on the floors or firewall where I would think the majority of the heat would be produced.
Just curious if your guy had any thoughts on which should go first, and if it will in any way mess up the sticking of the mat and cause it to come loose later on...??

Let us know...
 
#291 ·
lizzard skin.

I did the floors and side walls. But not the roof as that was previously done. LS has to go over a painted surface as it's a water based product.
once it's dry, which is not very long, the hush mat can then be applied, and does it stick. I sprayed it on with an under coating gun, one mist coat and two heavier coats. I would definately use this product again. A gallon of paint (miss tint from the paint store ,15 bucks and a gallon of micro balloons for 11 bucks. Figured I saved 200 bucks by using this homemade formula. If you have anymore guestions let me know, will be glad to pass on any more info. Hope this helps.
 
#292 ·
Thanks. I know there were mixed opinions.. some said the hush mat wouldn't stick to the home made lizard skin.
I already did my roof and sides with the hush mat... but really wanted to do the floors and firewall with the lizard skin stuff. Just didn't want to have problems with adhesian
Just makes sense if it is for hear, it should be closest to the heat source..??
I'm not into all the thermo-dynamics. so I don't know.. just wanted to ask.

I guess you saw on here about the Home Made Hush mat... get it in rolls at Lowes.

I have already done as you suggested. Bought a gallon of "oops" paint at Lowes($15) and a gallon bag of the ceramic beads... I'm set to go when I get my floors and firewall exactly the way I want them.
Glad to hear it all went well for you
 
#294 ·
I guess you saw on here about the Home Made Hush mat... get it in rolls at Lowes.
As has been pointed out in this thread the stuff in rolls at Home Depot or Lowes is not the same as Hushmat. It may look the same but the stuff at the stores is asphalt based as opposed to butyl rubber based. The stuff at the stores will let go when it gets hot and will not stick.

Just a FYI
Vince
 
#293 ·
I didn't read all 20 pages but from what I did read there were some questions on how durable they are ie can they be mixed with a solvent based paint or can they withstand mixing with a power mixer.

As you can imagine these were made for other purposes than insulation on a car. We use the same thing, (maybe a different name but they are still glass spheres) in cement for oil wells. They are used to make a lightweight slurry to help with problem wells and they also use it it a thermal cement when steam injection is used.

I is pumped through a high velocity centrifugal pump and pumped down the well at pressure in the 3,000 psi to 4,000 psi range.

I thought I should add that it is VERY important to use a dust mask when mixing this stuff. Someone mentioned how dusty it is, consider that the dust is micro shards of glass, not good to breath in.

Oh ya, we buy it in 1000 pound bulk sacks. lol
 
#295 · (Edited)
Vince is right. There is no "home made" Hushmat. What the home improvement stores sell are roofing products called Peel & Seal. What you need is a sound deadener. There are sound deadeners that are asphalt based, but they have a higher melting point than the roofing products. B-Quiet Extreme is one that has a 67 to 230 degree F heat rating.
 
#296 ·
OK, I have to admit I joined your forum just because of this thread.
I have question.

Has anyone sprayed this stuff over Fat Mat? I read where some talked about it, but never actually said if it had been tried. If so, how has it held up? I am worried about it flaking off the aluminum foil backing.
 
#297 ·
No I have never sprayed the home made brew, I roll it on and use a brush for the tight spots. I however would not try to apply it over anything but a hard surface such as steel or fiberglass. A surface that could flex somewhat would most probably cause the material to flake or peel off.
 
#300 ·
Hi,


Thanks to all who contributed to this post ; I've read everything written on this thread.

In summation, am I correct in saying:

1. I want basically a 50/50 mix of micro spheres and paint?
2. It needs to be the consistency of pancake batter, right? {I intend to brush it on.}


I want to brush on my home made Lizard Skin to the ENGINE side of my firewall (using latex paint / micro sphere mix) then once it's dry, I want to cover it with the cheapo Home Depot foil bubble wrap.

Is this okay?

Since I'll be covering the Lizard Skin with the foil bubble wrap, it makes no difference at all to me what it looks like - just that it knocks out some of the heat!

I've already wire brushed my firewall, washed it down with lacquer thinner, sanded it, washed it down again and brushed on 3 coats of primer. Tonight I'm going to brush on a coat of Rustoleum rust paint.

Two or three days from now I want to brush on the home made Lizard Skin, then after it's dry, I want to contact-cement the foil bubble wrap to the Lizard Skin.

Does this sound like a good plan to you?


For the last five years (before I read this thread), I've had nothing on the firewall but a coat of paint and a layer of cheapo - bubble wrap insulation and the insulation held up just fine.


Any thoughts, please?

Thank you very much!


Dave
 
#301 ·
I want to brush on my home made Lizard Skin to the ENGINE side of my firewall (using latex paint / micro sphere mix) then once it's dry, I want to cover it with the cheapo Home Depot foil bubble wrap.

Is this okay?

Dave

I would not put the bubble wrap on the inside of the engine compartment. It is just foil covered plastic.

I would keep it inside the passenger compartment.
 
#302 ·
rustoleum

maybe I missed something,,but why use cheap latex when you could mix the beads with the rustoleum. since latex is not 100% waterproof vs. oil based rustoleum that is.
as a sidenote, my last 6 vans/cars have been painted with a 6 inch roller and custom mixed rustoleum.
menards in ohio has a color chart of over 100 color choices,,
 
#304 ·
I think you would have much greater success with this if you put all of it on the inside of the firewall. I wouldn't use the bubble wrap, I'd put something like Dynamat or Fattmat on the inside firewall and then cover that with the generic lizard skin.
 
#305 ·
Understood - thank you. It's my fault for not previously explaining that the engine is out and the interior is installed and finished.

In my case, I'd have to rip the interior apart to put the Lizard Skin on the inside of the firewall.
Since the engine is out, the engine side of the firewall's right there waiting for something to cover it!


Dave
 
#308 ·
I called everybody I could think of last night and unfortunately, I can't find any Dynamat locally. This engine's going back in tonight so there won't be any Dynamat on the engine side of my firewall this time around.

I put a layer of the home made Lizard Skin on the firewall last night before bed. (Using Rustoleum rust paint).
I don't know how well it will work but even if it only knocks out 10 or 20 degrees of heat, it's better than nothing.
Before I install the new engine, I'll try to do some sort of heat test to see if I can find a temperature difference between the engine side and the interior side - and I will report back here.

Thank you for your help,
Dave
 
#309 ·
The Dynamat would probably be enough, but he could cover the Dynamat with the Lizard Skin in any color he wanted and it would look better. The reason I said Dynamat was that it would adhere to the smooth, clean metal extremely well, and he was going to use foil faced bubble wrap. The Dynamat would just be a lot better choice than the bubble wrap.
 
#310 ·
That is what I was thinking also .the bubble wrap will probably melt and I would keep a fire extinguisher close by as latex paint is flammable as is the bubble wrap.:evil:

the fumes from hot latex could be toxic also ,,,I would check before putting it under hood next to extreme heat. Just saying
 
#326 ·
This thread brought me to your great forum here. I am very excited as this seems to be EXACTLY what I was looking for! Not only that, but I clicked on ONE other thread which was highlighted at the bottom of one page and it solved another problem that I've been wrestling with for a while. I'm a Jeep guy, not a hot rodder (someday!), but I've exhausted the off road forums for a few dilemmas I've got... I can't wait to see how many other problems I can solve searching around here!



This is one of my biggest concerns with many of these products. Not just that they're flammable, but many bedliners and asphalt-based products are VERY hard to put out once they start burning. I was relieved to see this post (which should be added to the wiki), but I will be doing my own test as well...
...One of the nice things about it as it will not burn. I sprayed 3 layers on a test panel. Let it cure, scraped some off held a match to it. The flames just dies out immediately It will not support combustion.
...
Brian.
Many thanks to Vince and all those who contributed here!
Billy
 
#311 ·
I've had the bubble wrap on the firewall for the last 5 years and I haven't had any problems with it. In fact, I had it 2 inches away from my turbocharger and it still didn't melt.

Instead of using latex paint to mix the microspheres with, I ended up using Rustoleum rust paint and I brushed it on the firewall.

The whole purpose of my wanting to use a home made concoction of Lizard Skin was to get away from using high dollar "real" Lizard Skin or high dollar Dynamat / Hushmat etc.. The foil bubble wrap is cheap and even if it is only a weeeee bit better than nothing, it might help a little bit and costs very little.

I don't care about sound deadening, I'm in this for heat control from the engine to the passenger compartment.


Dave
 
#315 ·
This is a great thread that actually brought me here to lurk several years ago. Time for me to ask a question.... :welcome:

Has anyone ever poured the home brew Lizard skin into a panel opening and then rotated/turned/spun the panel to cover the inside?

I have a 70 Chrysler 300 vert that I want to quiet down. This car has the most highway noise of any of the big Mopars I've owned over the years. A lot of it seems to come out of the trunk area. The quarters were replaced sometime in the car's early lifetime and the usual heavy factory applied undercoating on the inside of the quarters is missing. I'll apply the Lizard Skin there and on the trunk floor.

I think I'd like to coat the inside of the deck lid too... but there is only some openings around the latch and hinges. I'm thinking I can take the deck lid off and pour some of the paint mix in the holes and twist and turn the lid until it's covered inside.

Has anyone done this??
 
#316 ·
I'm sure nobody has, but give it a try. What do you have to lose? At worst it doesn't work, but if it quiets the car down even a little, it will be worth it.
 
#319 ·
Not that old of thread so I'm hoping people area still paying attention to it.

Was interested in finding out what the results were if you used some other paint instead of house latex. Our fab shop has a really nice primer they put on industrial duct work that I am planning on using inside my body.

I'm also a little confused why you would put the home made lizard skin over Dynamat? Don't they both do the same thing?
 
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