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Old 07-26-2008, 01:50 PM
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Aluminum Corvette heads on SB 400

I am wondering if having my 10088113 aluminum heads machined to accept 2:02 valves to install on my SB 400 engine is a good idea or waste of cash. I plan on 5.7 rods and a roller cam. I know the pistons might be harder to find for these 58cc heads with the longer rods, but not as hard as if I use 6' rods. I want the truck to run on pump gas. Any advice would be much appreciated.

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Old 07-26-2008, 01:59 PM
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You will need to drill the heads for the extra steam holes that a 400 requires. It can be done using a 400 head gasket as a guide.

That said ... I would sell the Corvette heads and buy a GOOD set of aftermarket heads with the 2.02 valves already in them. By the time you buy the larger valves and have them installed in your heads ... PLUS the money from your old Corvette heads ... it will BUY the new, better flowing heads.
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:43 PM
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Personally I wouldn't screw around installing the larger valves, #1 ... for the reasons "Deuce" eluded to and #2 .... the smaller valves will build a little better low end grunt. I would just have a good valve job done and match the piston/rod assembly to compensate for the added compression of the smaller combustion chamber.
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Old 07-26-2008, 11:04 PM
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What do you want to do with it?
What's your goals?
What's your budget?
What's the weight, transmission, gears, tires, etc.?
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Old 07-26-2008, 11:21 PM
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The hot setup on these heads is to run a 2.00x 1.56" valve combination. (LT-4 valves)
These heads need to be ported to realise the airflow and power increase you are looking for. The 2.00"x 1.56" valves are the largest recomended size valves for the stock valve seats on these heads. 2.02x 1.60" valves don't add anything but unnessessary extra cost.
Once properly ported with the larger 2.00-1.56 valves, these heads rock.
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:04 AM
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My goals

What I would like to do is build a fast street/strip engine with a limited budget. The head work wasn't supposed to be that expensive I was told under $300. but I may have misunderstood. If I have a stock bottom end 400 and I just left the heads at 1:94 with a valve job and bolted them on (steam holes drilled of course) and added a nice cam would the motor run fast? the 58cc chambers should keep the compression under 11:1 since the stock comp was 8.5 or 9 to 1, am I thinking correctly? Would it be worth going with a roller cam in this application. It will be going into a 72 C10 long bed. Thanks to all offering advice
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:04 AM
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The port flow of these heads in stock OEM form is kinda modest. But really comes up with standard complete porting, even with the stock 1.94x 1.50" valves.
A competition 3+ angle valve job and 30 back cut on the valves helps a lot.
They make very good power when ported a good bit. Don;t be shy here. This will make or break your project. (its all about engine airflow)
A good Hyd flat tappet cam will dop the job nicely. A retrofit roller cam is quite expensive for a Budget build. Your cr should be 10:1 on the nose, if the motor is otherwise "stock" (dished pistons), after installing 58cc heads.
Get a Performer RPM intake, headers and a 750cfm carb.
a good easy goof proof moderate roller cam for your truck would be the GM LT-4 Hot Cam and kit. 218-228@.050" .525" .525" lift 1.6:1 rockers. LT-4 valve springs, retro fit lifters and pushrods. The heads will require machining to accomodate this cams required valvetrain.
But a simular duration flat tappet hyd cam will do the job just fine.
If you are rebuilding this engine use a 5.7" 350 rod wiht new ARP bolts and a 18 to 21cc dished piston. eg KB168-30 keith Black Hyper pistons.
Minor rod bolt head edge/cam lobe clearancing grinding will be required for the cam to clear a few of the rod bolts with the 5.7 rod.
pass on the 6" rods for this one.

You'll get out of it what you put into it. If you throw the heads on stock, you'll get so so stock ish power. If you open them up and make them breath deep, you'll make a lot more power. 2.02's are not the way to go with these heads. You have the basis of a very good performance head, just need some tweeking to "unleash the hounds".
Were you planning on changing the rear gear ratio and trans converter stall speed?

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Old 07-27-2008, 02:55 PM
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Has any one else had any problems with these same heads not mounting up plum with a RPM airgap intake? I have a Gap on the block that is about .150 between the block and the intake, these heads have a lip around the top witch is catching the intake. Think I can grind it down a little?

I think these heads are going to be great, yes the 58cc is something to think about but they have -22cc and -30cc KB pistons for a good price. I agree with the LT4 upgrade and then port them a bit.

I think If I remove just a little around the yellow part in the pic I can fit? any comments? or could this just be that I had no gaskets on the block or heads or intake just kinda puttin it there to see what it looks like sort of thing.
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Old 07-27-2008, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorkMonster400
Has any one else had any problems with these same heads not mounting up plum with a RPM airgap intake? I have a Gap on the block that is about .150 between the block and the intake, these heads have a lip around the top witch is catching the intake. Think I can grind it down a little?

I think these heads are going to be great, yes the 58cc is something to think about but they have -22cc and -30cc KB pistons for a good price. I agree with the LT4 upgrade and then port them a bit.

I think If I remove just a little around the yellow part in the pic I can fit? any comments? or could this just be that I had no gaskets on the block or heads or intake just kinda puttin it there to see what it looks like sort of thing.
NOT trying to hijack this thread.
Maybe there should be an new thread for this.

What heads are they?
The block to intake clearance is fine, RTV fills the gap nicely.
If your intake doesn't fit the heads, is it designed for those heads?
LT4 stuff doesn't fit other Gen engines, do they? Isn't the LT1/4 reverse flow?
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Old 07-27-2008, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tymer
I am wondering if having my 10088113 aluminum heads machined to accept 2:02 valves to install on my SB 400 engine is a good idea or waste of cash. I plan on 5.7 rods and a roller cam. I know the pistons might be harder to find for these 58cc heads with the longer rods, but not as hard as if I use 6' rods. I want the truck to run on pump gas. Any advice would be much appreciated.
This isn't a very good head, the ports don't flow well on a 350 and there isn't enough meat to open them up much. Large valves are solving a non issue. The problem is getting mixture thru the port. The valve size isn't the critical issue with these, so spending the money to make them bigger won't buy anything.

Don't get me too wrong, these heads an OK on a mild street 350, they're a great addition to a 307, 305, 283; but that's as good as it gets. They're woefully short on port capacity for a 383. Use 'em if you must for the short term, but don't spend money trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear; cause it's just going to be a shiny ported, big valved sows ear. Save your hard earned dollars for some good heads out there in the future somewhere. If you must use these to get going, spend the minimum time and money to do so.

Bogie
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 327NUT
Personally

and #2 .... the smaller valves will build a little better low end grunt.
.
"I am going to be really categoric about this that to make best low speed torque the engine needs the valves to be as big as can be crammed into the space available." DAVID VIZARD
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoTFrenzel
"I am going to be really categoric about this that to make best low speed torque the engine needs the valves to be as big as can be crammed into the space available." DAVID VIZARD
It that's what Mr. Vizard said, he's WRONG!

Torque in the mid range (which is really mid range horsepower) is highly dependent upon incoming and out going gas velocity. The impact of large ports and or large valves reduces these velocities which in turn reduces both fill turbulence and mixture density inside the cylinder which reduces torque which translates into horsepower, which is what does the work.

The original valve size with these ports, especially on a 383, will hit really hard in the mid revs, as Chevrolet originally intended that you feel with the TPI L-98 engine. But the upper RPMs will go soft, a lot like using a 305 head on a 350.

The 113 head doesn't have the port volume or shape to feed a 383 above 4500-5000 RPM and the head doesn't have enough material to really port these to feed a 383 above those RPMs. Therefore, the solution to feeding the cylinder is time rather than size dependent. That's to say the head will be responsive to a longer duration cam rather than big valves, given you really can't do a enough with the ports to feed a larger curtain area of a bigger valve. The best of pro-ported 113 heads I've ever seen, are smoked by set of out of the box Vortecs. What the home porter can do without a lot of knowledge and a flow bench will be woefully short of what TPIS can do unless they stumble into more luck than the average bass fisherman.

Knowing this, it is my recommendation that he minimize effort and expense on the L-98 heads, get the motor running since he stated he's short on cash, and drive the thing while saving his nickles and dimes for a set of DARTS, AFRs, GM Fastburns, even iron Vortecs. And I'm being kind, Frankly I wouldn't spend a dime on those 113's for a 383, I think long and hard for a 350 b ut would be more than willing to stick them on top of a 305. He'd be way ahead to put 'em for sale on e-Bay, take the money add that to what he would've spent on a valve job and buy a decent set of modern heads. In the end, The cost of new heads won't be much different from fixing the 113's, while the performance on a 383, in all aspects, of a better set of heads will be amazing.

Bogie
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:28 PM
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I dissagree and so did John Lingenfelter (RIP) who used to pro port these heads for his 450+ hp 350's and 383 custom built vette motors.
These heads do have very modest flows in stock form. But they port up beautifully.
They are 161cc stock and flow 198cfm stock. A good home porting will get you 245cfm with about 10-12cc of port metal removal. A pro porter can and does easily get 260+ cfm out of these ports. with a 2.00" valve. thats a lot more than what a stock vortec flows. Getting the flow out of the exhaust port is not a problem either 200+cfm. The exhaust port D shape is superior. The chamber needs some deshrouding and reshaping around the spark plug area. just like very other non vortec head needs. 245+intake (full effort home port) and 200cfm ex makes for a very strong street motor. 260cfm (full pro port) is capable of 500hp at 10.5:1 cr with the right manifold cam and exhaust. These heads run strong when ported. These heads will run strong on a 383 when ported. yes you will need the right cam too.

I believe Lingenfelter Engineering still sells these heads in CNC ported form.

which proves what the potential is of these heads.
TPIS used to sell a very similar ported L-98 head. Not quite as good as a AFR, but very close.
Kind of like with 305 heads on a 350. Well the last one I built would rev and pull strong to 7000rpm.

Stock GM vortecs flow 228cfm if you cannot get 228 cfm by home porting a 113 head yourself, take up knitting. If you can even get a mid 230 cfm it will run strong for not a lot of $$$'s.

Of the SBC OEM junk yard jewels these are your second best choice besides vortecs. Easy 450hp potential without making them unreliabley thin. The porting that needs to be done is no different than any other SBC head needs to get the flow up. Read Vizards book. Porting these heads is covered.

The newest, latest version of these heads sold now by GMPP are even better. Come with a better valve job and bowl preperation and performance springs.

a 10:1 cr 383 with honest effort home ported 113 heads and a LT-4 hot cam with RPM manifold and long tube headers will make 425 hp and a ton of torque. a 400sbc will make about 10-hp more and a ton more torque with the same moderate LT-4 cam. Axle buster.

This pic shows the finished intake bowl form (this happends to be the iron TPI/L-98 head but the job is the same. This one has a 2.08" valve ( requires new larger seats) and flows 270+cfm. Note the non semetrical bowl form. you cannot get this finished form with a bowl hog. Do it all by hand. You don't need to get 270cfm to get good strong street performance. this is jut to show your the form and the potential.
These heads when done make a beauti 180ish CC port street/strip head.
These are not my heads.
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