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Old 12-01-2005, 04:15 PM
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An Amateur Tries Ghost Flames

I'm brand new to this forum, so if I seem dumb....Iyam.

Anyway, gonna try my hand at ghost flames on my newest project. First custom. Usually do original restos. Been painting 20 years as an amateur. Mostly solid two stage stuff, but did an R90S Beemer in 3 stage Daytona Orange that turns heads, so maybe I'm ready for flames....I dunno. Worth a try.

Here's what I was thinking and maybe you guys can steer me in a better direction if it sounds goofy:

This is a House of Color system. Silver base coat. Tape on the flames and mask all but the flames. Pearl mixed with clear (1 Tblspoon/qt) heavy on the 'licks' and faded to no pearl at the front. Remove all tape and masking. Red Brandywine candy over the whole enchilada.

What I want is a really subtle flame so they are not obvious at first glance.

Will this do the trick? Or do I need a different approach?

I've never seen what this might look like, so I'm kinda workin in the dark.

Any pics would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Doc.

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Old 12-01-2005, 09:10 PM
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That'll work, the flames will have a slight glow to them but not as much reflection as the rest of the car in direct sunlight. Do a test panel if possible to determine how much pearl should go on and how much candy and also to determine if this is the look you are after. Bob
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Old 12-01-2005, 09:32 PM
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ghosts

If I shoot clear w/pearl over the silver base, then shoot the candy over the clear, do I need to sand the clear first?

If so, maybe it's better to shoot the candy over the silver base on the whole job, then mask the flames off, and shoot the clear w/pearl over the flames, and then clear the whole thing. If I do it this way, will the flames look lighter than the rest? That's what I want.

What d'ya think?
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Old 12-01-2005, 09:56 PM
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Kinda lost here (as usuall).
This is going to be a Brandywine Kandy complete with gold ghost flames, Right?
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Old 12-01-2005, 10:19 PM
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Hold on fellas!! Your kinda wasting your time with the pearl over the silver! Your gonna be "shootin in the dark" so to speak. shoot the car silver, shoot your candy color,.. let it sit overnight...next day tape off the flames... very very light pearl,will give a whiteish--- glow to the flames, if your lookin for that effect? But only put 1/5th of of the amount you think it needs. My preferance is alittle bit heaveir on the peral --still your only putting avery light tent to the flames and then shool 1 more candy coat over the whole car. You'll get that REAL ghoast effect. The only way to screw it up is to 'tiger stripe' the candy or like I've been warning....too strong on the pearl! Good luck.
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Old 12-01-2005, 11:25 PM
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I've done a few 'ghost flame' jobs but I have never done them with candies , I just based the vehicle , taped out the flames , sprayed a pearl mixture pretty solid along the edges letting it fade towards the inner part of the licks . Getting this right is a bit tough because your working with a pretty invisible solution , you just need to pay attention to get it nice and even all the way through , unmask and clear ! I wouldn't use candies unless you have some experience with them. I have added acouple thumbnails but with the flames being 'ghosted' they are hard to see in the picture but look real cool in real life.
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Old 12-02-2005, 08:03 AM
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The jeep looks great! But maybe next time forget the 'emblems'. Your either 'custom' or not.
But it looks like you've done a good job on the 'lay out' congradulations!
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Old 12-02-2005, 11:05 AM
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i think if you do the pearl right on top of the silver your going to lose it all together. the silver will sparkle so much you wont see the flame at all. i would probably go the way dominator said and do the flames then put a coat or two on top. the only problem with this is brandywine. until you get alot of coats of this color on it will look pink. apple red doesn't do this. i usually do a 50/50 mix of apple and brandywine. it will still give you that blood red look but the apple somewhat kills the pink effect.
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Old 12-02-2005, 01:13 PM
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No Pink!

Clean,

Thanks for that. Avoiding pink was a top priority. But what about just going red, and skip the brandywine, altogether?

S
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Old 12-02-2005, 01:30 PM
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Sure if you want a Apple Red Kandy job.One of my all time favorites.It's also one of the most "forgiving" kandys to shoot unless you just have a really bad gun or set up. One main thing with a kandy job is the BASE,If you use a metallic,it best be RIGHT cause if it's mottled,striped,etc,it's just going to make the kandy look the same.
Like mrcleaner6 said,you shoot a kandy over a pearl ,especally ghost, and you all but kill it's effect.Besides ,the pearl after the kandy will LOOK better and I believe the customer will like it more. IF your in doubt of your abilities,Shoot the kandy and clear it,Then, do the flames and final clear coats.This way IF you don't like the flames or did too much pearl,etc,you can redo it without screwing the kandy job.
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Old 12-02-2005, 01:38 PM
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Ghost Flames

Glad you said that about the kandy over the pearl killing the effect. I'll skip step 7 from the last message, then, and just shoot the whole project like I'm not gonna flame it including the clear topcoat and 1500 sanding. Then tape the flames off, shoot the pearl, clear the whole job, and color sand again.

I was worried the flames might look milky doing it this way. Any ideas about that? Do I worry too much, or should I just try it and see if I like it. Just rying to save sanding time, ya know?

S
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Old 12-02-2005, 01:51 PM
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There's an article in the Hotrodders Knowledge Base about painting ghost flames that may be helpful to you.

Here's a direct link: Painting Ghost Flames.
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Old 12-02-2005, 02:00 PM
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Thanks, Jon. It helps.

Thanks, Jon. That helps.
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Old 12-02-2005, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockitdoc
Glad you said that about the kandy over the pearl killing the effect. I'll skip step 7 from the last message, then, and just shoot the whole project like I'm not gonna flame it including the clear topcoat and 1500 sanding. Then tape the flames off, shoot the pearl, clear the whole job, and color sand again.

I was worried the flames might look milky doing it this way. Any ideas about that? Do I worry too much, or should I just try it and see if I like it. Just rying to save sanding time, ya know?

S

as far as milky you have to remember these are ghost flames so very little pearl will be necessary. when its not in the sun you really shouldn't see them much at all. another thing you need to do is be aware of the pearls you are buying. not all are the same. some are much more transparent than others. for your effect you want one that is very transparent. if you look in the hok book or any color chips you will notice that some change the base color more than others. hok has a few different blues for instance. if you look at the chips of blues shot over the white base you will see one still looks white while some of the other look baby blue. the one that stays white is very transparent and will disappear better. old school flake has a line called ghost pearls. basically a collection of the most transparent pearls. i cant stress enough for ghosting things, SHOOT TEST PANELS. its the only way you will get the concentration of pearl and effect right. if you like apple red go with it. the two colors are very similar but the brandywine is a little richer and more blood red and i like that, thats why i do the mix.
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