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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2011, 12:52 PM
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LS1 hands down for this swap. That is if you want to keep it a gasser. A Cummins 4bt would be the ultimate power plant for your rig.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2011, 04:35 PM
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How about the Chevy Duramax 6.6L Diesel with an allison 6 speed. That thing has some grunt and would easily bring you where ever you wanted.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2011, 04:41 PM
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Really trying to stay sbc guys.... It's been done over and over in fJ60's wich makes troubleshooting easier, and less one-off work.

The more I'm looking, Im seeing 5.3l and 6.0l votecs complete with accessoried and EVERYTHING for pretty good prices.

Obviously I'm looking for lower mile engines, but what about 100-120k miles? Too many miles?

Thanks for all the input!
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2011, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbleon
Really trying to stay sbc guys.... It's been done over and over in fJ60's wich makes troubleshooting easier, and less one-off work.

The more I'm looking, Im seeing 5.3l and 6.0l votecs complete with accessoried and EVERYTHING for pretty good prices.

Obviously I'm looking for lower mile engines, but what about 100-120k miles? Too many miles?

Thanks for all the input!
There's probably been as many 4bt swaps as SBC swaps into rigs like yours. Just an example:

http://www.proffittscruisers.com/res...ns-diesel.html

Not trying to give you information you don't want, but for what you want to do a Cummins 4bt is hands down the best option. You can usually find an old bread truck, take the stuff you need, then scrap the truck and recoup most of your money.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2011, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr. Mechanic
There's probably been as many 4bt swaps as SBC swaps into rigs like yours. Just an example:

http://www.proffittscruisers.com/res...ns-diesel.html

Not trying to give you information you don't want, but for what you want to do a Cummins 4bt is hands down the best option. You can usually find an old bread truck, take the stuff you need, then scrap the truck and recoup most of your money.
I know Landcruisers. A 4bt swap is not as simple as you might think. It requires significant suspension changes (spring over axel lift) to clear the oil pan of the cummins due to the solid front axel. While Im sure the swap is wonderfully effective, they are also loud, vibratious, and dont like to run at higher rpms required for highway travel. On top of the fact that they are not all that easy to find... Trust me I've looked. The old "buy a bread truck" saying is a thing of the past, and most fetch top dollar if you can find them.

Compare all that to a sbc:
Give the power i need
Ease of install
Availability
replacement parts galore
Low initial cost
etc
etc
etc
etc

Like I said its a no brainer for me. If nobody wants to help me with my actual questions, then I'm wasting my time here....

Am I in there right place?

I just want to know what to look for sbc wise.

Like I said I have found several 5.3l and 6.0l complete from head to toe with all accessories for very good prices. Opinions on these engines? How many miles is too many? Or seems I can find a vewry good used 5.7 vortec for cheap, add tbi system and be on my way.

This looks tempting.

vortec 6.0l and 4l80e package
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2011, 06:22 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Anyone that could give you good advice on getting a sbc will just tell you that you need a diesel. If they know sbc's that well then they know their limitations, even a 400 wouldn't be enough. You're not going to get the power or mileage your after by going down that road, which is why you're getting little help.

Still, if you insist on making your own mistakes I'd get a drive-train similar to the one you posted, and then top it off with a whipple supercharger. 6,000 pounds is a lot of car to move.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2011, 09:49 AM
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A sbc is more than capable: example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgcN0c9YU68
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2011, 10:12 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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If rock crawling is your only concern then the stock engine is more than sufficient, thanks to the miracle of gearing. I think he has more in mind than just that though. Hell Samurai's can crawl pretty well with their stock tiny 4 bangers.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2011, 11:28 AM
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Just proving a sbc is effective

Ive ridden in a few fj60 sbc swaps... thats all I need.

By no means does the sbc fail to accelerate the truck adequately.

I'm in the process of removing the old japanese heart (2f). Just a matter of time before some american beef is transplanted!

Trying to locate 5.7l vortec 96-02. What casting numbers are best for block and heads? Do I want 062 or 906 heads? Can I check condition of heads (ie common crack) without pulling them? Is best idea to freshen block with main/rod bearings an re-ring or leave as is? What weak part of motor, what do I look out for? Looking to find < 100k motor...

Tranny options:
NV4500
700r4
toyota h55

X-case options:
stock- require expensive adapter (keep cool toyo offset axle)
np203/241-bolt right up (center output would require rear axle swap=no biggie)
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2011, 12:04 PM
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No one is arguing whether or not a SBC is capable, because they most certainly are. We're going off of YOUR checklist:

Reliability- a SBC sure as heck is reliable, but not even on the same planet when compared to a Cummins

Driveability- It's a toss up here, obviously a gas engine will be quieter and smoother, but you're in an old solid axle rig, how quiet and smooth do you expect it to be? You'll lose a ton of driveability and power with a TBI setup at 10,000 feet above sea level. A MPFI Vortec engine (like the 5.3) would be much more suited to this type of atmosphere. A turbo diesel won't really care all that much as it will just pile on some more boost.

Repairability (in middle of no-where)- Given the shear simplicity and brute strength of a Cummins as well as the thousands of Cummins dealers nation wide, I don't think this would be an issue. A computer controlled SBC or LSX would be pretty difficult to repair if something electrical went south in the middle of no where. Obviously a carbureted SBC with a mechanical fuel pump and HEI distributor would be the best in this scenerio, but that setup wouldn't fit any other points on the check list.

Cost
Ease of swap and repair- Again, these two things are a toss up. Both will probably take an equal amount of fab work. I don't know Toyotas very well, but I do know Grand Cherokees and I've seen 4bt's swapped into them. A lift is required as well as a good amount of fab work, but your rig seems to be much larger and has a much taller engine compartment than a ZJ which would make for an easier swap.

As far as fuel mileage goes, you won't get what you're looking for with a gas engine, especially when you start towing and or climbing in altitude.

As for the transmission and transfer case, I'd go with a NV4500 and AMG NV-242.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2011, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr. Mechanic
No one is arguing whether or not a SBC is capable, because they most certainly are. We're going off of YOUR checklist:

Reliability- a SBC sure as heck is reliable, but not even on the same planet when compared to a Cummins

Driveability- It's a toss up here, obviously a gas engine will be quieter and smoother, but you're in an old solid axle rig, how quiet and smooth do you expect it to be? You'll lose a ton of driveability and power with a TBI setup at 10,000 feet above sea level. A MPFI Vortec engine (like the 5.3) would be much more suited to this type of atmosphere. A turbo diesel won't really care all that much as it will just pile on some more boost.

Repairability (in middle of no-where)- Given the shear simplicity and brute strength of a Cummins as well as the thousands of Cummins dealers nation wide, I don't think this would be an issue. A computer controlled SBC or LSX would be pretty difficult to repair if something electrical went south in the middle of no where. Obviously a carbureted SBC with a mechanical fuel pump and HEI distributor would be the best in this scenerio, but that setup wouldn't fit any other points on the check list.

Cost
Ease of swap and repair- Again, these two things are a toss up. Both will probably take an equal amount of fab work. I don't know Toyotas very well, but I do know Grand Cherokees and I've seen 4bt's swapped into them. A lift is required as well as a good amount of fab work, but your rig seems to be much larger and has a much taller engine compartment than a ZJ which would make for an easier swap.

As far as fuel mileage goes, you won't get what you're looking for with a gas engine, especially when you start towing and or climbing in altitude.

As for the transmission and transfer case, I'd go with a NV4500 and AMG NV-242.
Hey Brew, I appreciate your input.

But like I said a 4bt cannot be swapped without substantial suspension modifications, not just a simple lift... a redesign of the suspension = $$$$$.

Why will TBI lose power and driveability at altitude? If I run o2 don't see that happening. I have owned tbi's and never had a problem at altitude.

Reliability: I'm fine if a sbc goes for 100k. By that time I'll probably be too old to drive.

Initial cost: Good luck finding a cummins without a zillion miles on it or the seller wants you to take a second mortgage to buy his 150k engine. SBC's practically grow on tress and parts galore.

Repairability: I have experience working on gasoline engines, specifically chevy and TBI systems. I can diagnose and change any failed electrical component in the field in less than 30 minutes. With only a few electrical components its simple and cheap enough to carry spares, even a computer. The reason TBI is appealing is simplicity and external fuel pump. I have never owned or worked on a diesel, period.

MPG: its a wash since diesel around here is over $ 3.50... gasoline is $2.85.
Your mpg saved doesnt look too good now.

Driveability: is an absolute no brainer. SBC all the way. Smooth IS a relative term, but my wife will be driving this rig occasionally, and it needs to have some manners. Cummins are loud, vibratious, and with low gears will be slow going.

I understand you passion for the cummins. In a different situation, where I had excess funds, or an already SOA truck, It might be well suited. But for this project, its gonna be SBC baby! Cant wait!

So I've got a couple leads on a 5.7l vortec. Can anyone advise me on casting numbers, what milage to stay under, potential issues?

Thanks

Cheers
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2011, 05:50 PM
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it sounds to me like he has done his homework on what engine he wants and what will work well.
i'm a member on a number of toyota boards and i'm know this sbc swap has been well covered.
he is just looking for help on the sbc build, not everything else.


but thats just my take on it
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2011, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matts37chev
it sounds to me like he has done his homework on what engine he wants and what will work well.
i'm a member on a number of toyota boards and i'm know this sbc swap has been well covered.
he is just looking for help on the sbc build, not everything else.


but thats just my take on it
OIH!

Yes, for pete's sake I know what engine I want to swap, just need help to work things out.

If I can lay some things out and get help that would be top notch!

I have alot of different option to consider:

1) start with builder block and do $1000 383 stroker kit + heads + tbi = sweet fresh motor. What's stopping me from doing this? Seems the extra cubic inches would help in the torque department. I would have to run BBC tbi que'no? What are the problems here? Machine work?

2) find lower mile vortec 5.7l and use it as is. Ultimately I don't know what im getting here. Unless I hear it running it would be hard to tell the condition of the motor? And every motor from craigslist has the usual 80k with no proof. So this option seems like a crap shoot.

3) get same vortec above or higher mile unit and rebuild/freshen it up. If I do this wouldn't it be better to just hop up to a 383 kit and have it all done once?

Also what tranny lads?

1) 700r4. easy and cheap, I like auto for offroad, and I'm sure the wife would like it too. Can anyone speak to the durability? Especially when mated to 400 trq 383?
2) 4l60e. dont know why I list this, isnt it just a computer controlled 700r4?
3) NV4500. super stout, harder to find and more $.
4) Any other combos?

What do the experts say?

Cheers
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2011, 07:45 PM
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My vote is for a 383

I think you will be much happier with the 383. If it were me i would go with a good old 9:1 compression setup with at least Vortec Heads, a good torque cam like a Comp 12-256-4, an Edelbrock 4 barrel intake with a TBI Adapter that bored to match a 50 mm TBI unit and then consult with a tuner on whether a set of 65# per hour injectors or 454 injectors would work best. Properly tuned it will motor that heavy Landcruiser around just fine and you will have a good mix of driveability with some performance and a torque setup. If you can find a new block I wouldn't hesitate going all factory roller with a cam thats designed for lower end torque because you will want all yoru power in by 5000 rpm. We once swapped a 350 in with the edelbrock 4 barrel manifold and the Edelbrock cam for the 400 Sbc with 600 cfm Edelbrock carb. Customer said the Cruiser was flat out scary, so pick your poison and have fun.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2011, 09:16 PM
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Okay, I tried but your mind is made up

Only reason I pushed the subject is because lots of guys overlook diesels for their rigs because they aren't educated on them, but it sounds like you know what you want.
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