Another Blower Question - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2009, 12:10 PM
70CHEVYSHORTY's Avatar
New Age Classic
 

Last journal entry: Seat
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Utah
Age: 27
Posts: 64
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Another Blower Question

Ok so I have a sbc 350 bored .30 over. Lunati hydralic cam aluminum heads ported with over sized valves I can't remeber off the top of my head by i think they a 68 cc chambers. I'm wanted to put a wieand 144 blower on it. Right now my c/r is 9.1 but i know that would work but is on the high end. So i'm open to buying a new set of pistons. I am wondering what the best piston would be brand and style and c/r, i would like some recomemdations for a carb too. Also if there is a different blower people would recomemd that is close to the same price as the weiand 144 i'm open to suggustions. Thanks for your time.

    Advertisement

Last edited by 70CHEVYSHORTY; 10-24-2009 at 12:25 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2009, 01:12 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,026
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 358 Times in 354 Posts
Speed pro L2441F forged. dished KB forged dished. Even KB dished hypers will work if you know how to set up the engine to not detonate on boost.
a low compression ratio is a big step in the right direction.



The Weiand 177ci blower is simularly priced and will make more power.
Its a bit taller.

The 9:1 is workable at low modest boost (5psi) and good gas.

A water/methanol injection system will allow much more boost ,less boost retard, and reliable power with what you got.

In my opinion, this is the way to go.

Something to consider instead of changing the pistons.

Use a fairly big hyd cam with some overlap like a comp XE 284H10 or simular Lunati Voodoo.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2009, 01:43 PM
70CHEVYSHORTY's Avatar
New Age Classic
 

Last journal entry: Seat
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Utah
Age: 27
Posts: 64
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for your help. Sounds like i have some researching to do. I'm not even sure the different in the 144 and the 177 is it just the height? Any recomendations for a carb? Any guess how much hp i will/could have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2009, 02:21 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,026
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 358 Times in 354 Posts
Use a 750 or 850 DP carb. Will need some mods for the blower but not a big deal. I like building my own custom carb using a Holley/Proform HP body upgrade.
A 750 vac sec #3310 (with upgrades/mods) works very well too for mild 144 huffer applications. (440-460hp)

Holley/BarryGrant sell blower carbs just for this application if building your own carb is a problem.
The 144 is capable if 480-500hp in a 350, with high boost. 440-460 is typical street. The 177 is bigger with a bigger taller better intake manifold and can make 600+hp on a 350 with a ton of torque.
The drive system is better on this blower too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:35 AM
471A
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 148
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
144 blower

Listen carefully to whatever 68 Firebird advises. He is one rodder who clearly and deeply knows what he is talking about. I ran a 144 on a 9:1 SBC with 2441 pistons and an 850 Edelbrock Carb and ran, on pump 92 octane gas, a best of 11.37 at 117 mph in a 3200 pound (with driver) Model A Fordor. After that car was lost in a fire, I salvaged the frame, differential, and short block to build a 7.6:1 static compression, Dart 215 heads, and Weiand 250 blower atop the same 30 over 350. I LOVED the 144, but its' overdrive ratio violates NHRA rules, and mine is a street-strip rod, I consequently rebuilt a Tudor A atop the same frame. I had months' long, and hugely frustrating, issues with getting the combination to run without backfiring, first with a single 850 Edelbrock, then with a pair of boost referenced 600 cfm Holleys. Advice from 68 Firebird ultimately made this combination work superbly. (34 degrees advance locked into the distributor) So, as long as you are not intending to built a combination that meets NHRA rules, either a 144 or the 177 is a superb street blower. If, however, you plan to run NHRA tracks now and again, the capped 1.7 ratio on Roots blowers means you must run a 250 blower, roughly equivalent in terms of swept volume with a GMC 4:71.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2009, 08:20 AM
70CHEVYSHORTY's Avatar
New Age Classic
 

Last journal entry: Seat
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Utah
Age: 27
Posts: 64
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you for the info. I won't be on a strip so I won't be worrying about staying with in any regulations. F-Bird has been very helpful with both of the posts i have put on here. I know F-bird answered about some carbs... I have a 750 speed demoned carb would this carb work? Any guess's on if a 177 will fit under the hood of a 70 c10? So far this is what i have planed for under the hood of my toy.SBC 350 bored .30 over. Lunati hydralic cam 276 duration 504 gross lift. Aluminum heads ported with over sized SS valves I can't remeber off the top of my head but i think they a 68 cc chambers. Demoned carb and i'm going to put on the 177 blower. 9.1 cr now not sure if i will lower that yet or not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2009, 08:26 AM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,026
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 358 Times in 354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 471A
Listen carefully to whatever 68 Firebird advises. He is one rodder who clearly and deeply knows what he is talking about. I ran a 144 on a 9:1 SBC with 2441 pistons and an 850 Edelbrock Carb and ran, on pump 92 octane gas, a best of 11.37 at 117 mph in a 3200 pound (with driver) Model A Fordor. After that car was lost in a fire, I salvaged the frame, differential, and short block to build a 7.6:1 static compression, Dart 215 heads, and Weiand 250 blower atop the same 30 over 350. I LOVED the 144, but its' overdrive ratio violates NHRA rules, and mine is a street-strip rod, I consequently rebuilt a Tudor A atop the same frame. I had months' long, and hugely frustrating, issues with getting the combination to run without backfiring, first with a single 850 Edelbrock, then with a pair of boost referenced 600 cfm Holleys. Advice from 68 Firebird ultimately made this combination work superbly. (34 degrees advance locked into the distributor) So, as long as you are not intending to built a combination that meets NHRA rules, either a 144 or the 177 is a superb street blower. If, however, you plan to run NHRA tracks now and again, the capped 1.7 ratio on Roots blowers means you must run a 250 blower, roughly equivalent in terms of swept volume with a GMC 4:71.

Is the blower drive ratio cap enforced on the "B&M/holley mini blowers" eg 144ci in the street/bracket/test and tune classes or just the big 671-871 10-71 roots for professional competition classes?
It is common knowledge that the little 144 is just starting to get busy with a 1.7:1 drive ratio. They don't make much boost or power at 1.7:1.
Generally the max recomended 144ci blower speed is 14,000 to 15000 +/-rpm

A 1.98 to 2.47 drive ratio is typical for 350-454 engines.
For 5psi boost on a 350 with the 144 you are going to be in the 2:1 drive ratio +/- zone.

2.33:1 seems to work very well on the 177 w a 350. (10+lbs boost)

The 750 speed demon will work with mods. the 177 will not likey fit under the hood. The 144 will.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 10-25-2009 at 09:05 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2009, 08:48 AM
70CHEVYSHORTY's Avatar
New Age Classic
 

Last journal entry: Seat
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Utah
Age: 27
Posts: 64
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Awesome thanks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
Is the blower drive ratio cap enforced on the "B&M/holley mini blowers" eg 144ci in the street/bracket/test and tune classes or just the big 671-871 roots for professional competition classes?

The 750 speed demon will work with mods. the 177 will not likey fit under the hood. The 144 will.
Ok thank you now i just have to decided rather to stay for the sleak look or mean look. Any suggustions on where to buy a 177 have some problems finding one on net.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2009, 09:00 AM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,026
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 358 Times in 354 Posts
summit racing

BDS

Dyers

http://www.alsblowers.com/big_sc500-177_4.html

ALS 177 blower scoop that encloses the carb.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2009, 05:09 PM
chevy1500z71's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: florida
Posts: 225
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
im running about 8pounds on my 350 with roughly 9:1 compression with methanol injection and i run 93 octane. im using flat tops with 4 valve reliefs and 76cc heads. im running 31 degrees of timing at wide open, no knock, no problems.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2009, 08:45 PM
471A
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 148
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
dimensions of 142 and 177 blowers

Page 12 of the 12 page Weiand tech manual provides dimensions for the 142 and 177 blowers, including length, width, heigth, etc. I surfaced the weiand manual using the following Google search: "weiand holley supercharger 142 177 dimensions measure". The manual want is not the "Installation" manual, which that search also brought up, but the 2004 Weiand "Tech" manual which contains the blowups and related dimensions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2009, 08:54 PM
471A
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 148
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
NHRA rules limit drive ratios on any Roots-type blower

The NHRA rule limiting blower overdrives applies to any and all, and I am here quoting the NHRA rule, "Roots-type blowers". That includes the small blowers. When NHRA reduced the allowable ratio several years back, I wrote NHRA to explain that under their new rule, the small Eaton blowers found on several brand new stock vehicles, fresh from the factory, were now illegal. The rule was adopted anyway. It's a shame, because, especially for a street-strip car, these 142/144 blowers are ideal. p.s. The NHRA specification of "Roots-type" blowers is meant to distinguish such blowers from screw-types and centrifugals.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2009, 10:00 PM
66GMC's Avatar
Get in, sit down, hang on
 

Last journal entry: Cab Removal
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Olds, Alberta Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 2,761
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 32
Thanked 90 Times in 85 Posts
I'm not pretending to be an expert on blowers by any means ... haven't even run one yet ... but I am still dreaming of one.

My 454 was purposely built with a blower "upgrade path" in mind.
~ 8.0:1 compression, forged pistons, etc.

I read a really interesting article in "Chevy High Performance" magazine regarding an *under-driven* 8-71 on a setup very similar to mine.

Logic seems to dictate (at least to me) that a big blower turning slower will provide adequate boost without generation a lot of heat and wear.

1.7:1 overdrive (170% x 6500 RPM = 11,500 blower RPM versus 80%underdrive = 5,200 blower RPM)

Perhaps an underdriven 6-71 for a small-block?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2009, 10:19 PM
chevy1500z71's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: florida
Posts: 225
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iv got mine overdriven to something like 2.6:1, its a whipple screw type blower tho. running a blower thats WAY to big just to produce adequate boost at a 1:1 ratio would have a lot more parasitic loss i would think, but what do i know, i dont have any experience with normal roots blowers.

iv heard that the roots type blowers start to produce so much heat when you start to really overdrive them that the extra boost is hardly worth the extra heat. once again, i could be very wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2009, 08:13 AM
70CHEVYSHORTY's Avatar
New Age Classic
 

Last journal entry: Seat
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Utah
Age: 27
Posts: 64
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Great info

Thanks everyone for all of the great info. It has helped out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
blower idle rpm problem Ratoflic Engine 7 12-01-2008 03:31 AM
blower on a 383 stroker question! motorhead454 Engine 12 10-06-2008 11:30 PM
Blower Question? Mightymouse Engine 19 08-24-2004 10:36 PM
8-71 blower question Camaro86StreetRod Engine 7 11-15-2003 04:25 PM
quench question for the blower guys minesblown Engine 7 10-16-2003 12:49 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.