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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2011, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underground
Whos base coat have you used and not their clear? There is some confusion here. I'm talking about SW clear being amber and it did change whites,silvers,golds. Gave them a yellow tint. NEVER ,EVER had that problem with Sikkens. Sikkens matches BEAUTIFUL!
Really, You've got numberous post from I don't know how many members here all boosting about SPI clear. SPI produces basecoat?

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2011, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjperotti
Really, You've got numberous post from I don't know how many members here all boosting about SPI clear. SPI produces basecoat?
I'm not understanding your ramblings I never mentioned SPI.
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:36 PM
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Never mind Underground we’re not getting anywhere with this dialog.

BarryK, thanks for the information. I wasn’t aware that resins were in the formula. And your explanation of cost for UV additives rings true and explains a few things. Particularly why I’ve noticed that after a car has been painted the clear starts to break down after about 12 years. Some do go longer but do gradually break down nevertheless.

Well shine, I stand corrected.
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjperotti
Never mind Underground we’re not getting anywhere with this dialog.

BarryK, thanks for the information. I wasn’t aware that resins were in the formula. And your explanation of cost for UV additives rings true and explains a few things. Particularly why I’ve noticed that after a car has been painted the clear starts to break down after about 12 years. Some do go longer but do gradually break down nevertheless.

Well shine, I stand corrected.

Glad to help, this is a very complicated subject and a lot of factors involved.

One note that I left out so as not to turn this into a book but I feel it is very important. Yellow cast of panels when blending.

Take a new BMW and let say you need to spot the door and then of course you would clear the whole door.
That BMW came from the factory with somewhere between 4 and 5 mils of paint including the ecoat, base and clear.
So we spot the base in and now shoot two wet coats of clear, depending on clear solid content you may be putting on 1.5-3.5 mils of clear per coat, the vette I just did i was averaging 3.7 mils per coat, so lets say 2 mils, we now have 4 mils of clear on the door over the factory clear butted up to the quarter with a paint total of say 5 mils. All colors will change with light reflection but it is the whites, some silvers and pastels that the naked eye will see a flop in certain light, that may give a yellow shade or cast.

Proper way, spot your first coat of clear over the base and stop a few inches from the edge of the panel, then do one full wet coat over the whole door.

Last edited by BarryK; 01-10-2011 at 05:55 PM. Reason: 3rd grade spelling
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:33 PM
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Wow, lots of good info in this thread.
If I might add; the UV additives are actually UV 'absorbers',
that convert the UV rays into heat. This conversion takes place
in the very top layer of the paint film, thereby saving the paint
that's underneath. And the effect does wear out over time,
in extreme instances causing the clearcoat to peel and the
underlying pigment to fade.

Just my opinion, but I think a single stage paint would be more
durable because it can be buffed out, giving a newer layer of
UV inhibitors after every buffing until all the paint film is rubbed off....
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:37 PM
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You pretty much have it wrapped up there.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:22 AM
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[QUOTE=Runnin'OnEmpty]Wow, lots of good info in this thread.
If I might add; the UV additives are actually UV 'absorbers',
that convert the UV rays into heat.
----------------------------------------------
This is true, that is why a black car will get hotter then a white car because the carbon in black is a natural absorber and white reflects.
BK

This conversion takes place
in the very top layer of the paint film, thereby saving the paint
that's underneath.
------------------------------------------------
Not really, the addition of a Hals gathers the free radicals and stops the migration or delays the migration to the top.
BK

And the effect does wear out over time,
in extreme instances causing the clearcoat to peel and the
underlying pigment to fade.
--------------------------------------------------
Actually its is the breakdown of the pigment that causes the clear to fail be it poor UV protection of the clear or a poor pigment usage in the base.
A chemical fact is, a color with cheaper pigments, no matter how good the clear is, it cannot protect the pigment like it should.
That is why you will see experienced painters go ballistic at the mention of a cheap base on here, they been there and done that.
BK

Just my opinion, but I think a single stage paint would be more
durable because it can be buffed out, giving a newer layer of
UV inhibitors after every buffing until all the paint film is rubbed off....
-----------------------------------------------------------------
If SS is nothing more then clear with a dispersion additive and a 20-25% pigment load, why would this be any different then a clear?
Another note, pigment has no strength and if you are displacing resin with pigment to a 20% ratio, would that make it weaker then a full strength clear?
What about a single stage, would the pigments be exposed to the elements?

This is not my dog fight as what is best SS or base clear but will say this, BOTH have their positive points and negative points but one system does not fit all, it depends what the car is used for as to witch system is best.
There is no clear cut answer and a whole bunch of factors to consider before choosing a system.
BK
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2011, 06:47 AM
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[QUOTE=BarryK]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runnin'OnEmpty
Wow, lots of good info in this thread.
If I might add; the UV additives are actually UV 'absorbers',
that convert the UV rays into heat.
----------------------------------------------
This is true, that is why a black car will get hotter then a white car because the carbon in black is a natural absorber and white reflects.
BK

This conversion takes place
in the very top layer of the paint film, thereby saving the paint
that's underneath.
------------------------------------------------
Not really, the addition of a Hals gathers the free radicals and stops the migration or delays the migration to the top.
BK

And the effect does wear out over time,
in extreme instances causing the clearcoat to peel and the
underlying pigment to fade.
--------------------------------------------------
Actually its is the breakdown of the pigment that causes the clear to fail be it poor UV protection of the clear or a poor pigment usage in the base.
A chemical fact is, a color with cheaper pigments, no matter how good the clear is, it cannot protect the pigment like it should.
That is why you will see experienced painters go ballistic at the mention of a cheap base on here, they been there and done that.
BK

Just my opinion, but I think a single stage paint would be more
durable because it can be buffed out, giving a newer layer of
UV inhibitors after every buffing until all the paint film is rubbed off....
-----------------------------------------------------------------
If SS is nothing more then clear with a dispersion additive and a 20-25% pigment load, why would this be any different then a clear?
Another note, pigment has no strength and if you are displacing resin with pigment to a 20% ratio, would that make it weaker then a full strength clear?
What about a single stage, would the pigments be exposed to the elements?

This is not my dog fight as what is best SS or base clear but will say this, BOTH have their positive points and negative points but one system does not fit all, it depends what the car is used for as to witch system is best.
There is no clear cut answer and a whole bunch of factors to consider before choosing a system.
BK

Hit the nail on the head with all of it and the one about cheap bases is so true.


read this peeps!

when you go out and by Ur cheap *** Nason or Omni bases you are buying Junk
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2011, 07:15 AM
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trying to explain paint technology on this web site is a waste of time. it's sad that such a great site has gone to **** over the years and lost so many industry professionals . like them i am done trying to help the hobby guy and having to argue with car lot bodymen and infomercials. the last bit of advice i will give the do it yourself guy is to find another source for information unless you want your hotrod to look like your neighbors Yugo.
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