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Another starter issue

2K views 12 replies 5 participants last post by  motownphilly 
#1 ·
Well i read through all the previos posts on starter problems and didnt quite see my problem but have seen some ideas to try.

I have a 78 model block with a 168 tooth flexplate and a starter from a 94 -99 truck which is a gear reduction for a 168 tooth flex plate. When I first fired off the engine it started fine and for the first 20 times or so. then it started grinding and catching on the flex plate. I Thought it was the starter and i warrantied it and it still does the same thing. I pulled it off and checked it and it kicks fine. I have shimmed and shimmed one side and now I am stuck. I do not understand why it worked and now it doesnt. I had a friend tell me that there should be an 1/8 inch gap and that mine is about a 1/4 and he thinks that is what the problem is. But like I said it started fine to begin with. Does anyone have a clue what my problem is? Will a bad ground cause this or not having that bracket on it. I have never seen one of those brackets and I have been in auto parts for several years but I have heard of them . Anything I have ever worked on has never had one. I appreciate everyones time Thanks

David
 
#3 ·
No I havent been able to start it since. The flexplate doesnt look like its comin apart, it seems to spin fine. Thats what I was thinkin something moved but readin about the elictrical issue I have been thinkin. But Im not sure so I am at a standstill and ready to shoot it:confused:
 
#4 ·
Sack, I have some posts on this problem. First, there are no nose braces that will bolt in your Gen. I block and reach the gear reduction starter. I tried making one but no luck. My starter was an after market one from Auto Zone. My block was a 74 4 bolt main with the three bolt pattern and I was using the diagonal pattern starter. It turned out that the starter mounting block had too much material and the gear was not engaging the flex ring gear deep enough. It was forcing the drive gear out enough to bend the starter bolts. I milled of about .025 from the mounting face, but needed to take another .025, but could not do that in our little mill. I ended up talking with Powermaster and learned they made starters for high compression engines and one that you could put in three bolts if the block was drilled for it. That took care of my starter problem. Sounds like you must have the same starter I had since you can't get enough engagement ie, shimming made it worse. Bet you have bent bolts as well. By the way, Summit Racing provided my Powermaster. You have to tell them what you want because it is not listed in their catalog.

Trees
 
#5 ·
What bugs me is that it is sticking on the flex plate. How much did that starter run ya. I have this in a 91 s10 and I lack alot of room which is why i am using that starter to begin with. My engine is only 10:1. Not to high. I originally used reg bolts because i couldnt find any to fit right. I work at a GM dealership in parts and I went ahead and ordered some factory ones. It seemd to help but not well enough. I thjink maybe its still shifting cause that is a torquie lil starter so i dunno.
 
#7 ·
Sack, shimming only lets the drive gear extend further toward the rear of the flex plate. If you mean "deeper into the teeth of the flex plate" then the starter must be closer to the mounting boss. The only fix for that is to mill off material on the starter mounting block, or buy a starter that is manufactured correctly. The cheap labor overseas just does not understand tolerances and the suits that draw up the contracts don't understand them either so we suffer from poor parts. Your 10.1 compression is too much for an OEM replacement starter that is designed for a maximum of 8-1 compression. The Powermaster is pricey: about $160 if I remember correctly. With new factory bolts you should get a few starts, but they will bend also and you will be back to square one. If you have not looked at the bolts you replaced, do so and I think you will find them bent.

Trees
 
#9 ·
trees said:
The cheap labor overseas just does not understand tolerances and the suits that draw up the contracts don't understand them either so we suffer from poor parts.

thats why i avoid offshore products like the plague whenever possible. plus its just a good economic practice to buy american, a union blue collar boy could do nothing less
 
#10 ·
Sack, the Powermaster should fit any place yours does, size wise. There is a slight difference in where the wires hook up. It is a very well made piece of equipment and has a great warranty. Have you check your block to see if you have all three holes to utilize the three bolt pattern? If so, it will never move once torqued down!!

Trees
 
#12 ·
Well tonight i decided to pull the shim out I had in it again. I kicked it over and it fired right up. Dont know what the deal is or was but I am not having a problem now. It kicks right were it should and runs good. All I really did was replace the bolts. The ones that were in it were not bent but I dont know. Obe thing I have learned over this is not to over analyze a problem which I have done. And I have lost sleep over it. So it runs now and I am happy. thanks for help and insight

David
 
#13 ·
New style gear redution GM starters require the use of factory type knurled shank bolts.(as do old style non gear reduction). Not using them can cause the starter to buck out of allignment, and bind up.When tightening the bolts tighten untill the knurl on one bolt enters the block then the other, then tighten both to 35 lb-ft. (check engagement) should be fine. Buy AMERICAN!
 
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