Another starter issue - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Electrical
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2004, 03:30 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Waco,Tx
Posts: 28
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Another starter issue

Well i read through all the previos posts on starter problems and didnt quite see my problem but have seen some ideas to try.

I have a 78 model block with a 168 tooth flexplate and a starter from a 94 -99 truck which is a gear reduction for a 168 tooth flex plate. When I first fired off the engine it started fine and for the first 20 times or so. then it started grinding and catching on the flex plate. I Thought it was the starter and i warrantied it and it still does the same thing. I pulled it off and checked it and it kicks fine. I have shimmed and shimmed one side and now I am stuck. I do not understand why it worked and now it doesnt. I had a friend tell me that there should be an 1/8 inch gap and that mine is about a 1/4 and he thinks that is what the problem is. But like I said it started fine to begin with. Does anyone have a clue what my problem is? Will a bad ground cause this or not having that bracket on it. I have never seen one of those brackets and I have been in auto parts for several years but I have heard of them . Anything I have ever worked on has never had one. I appreciate everyones time Thanks

David

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2004, 03:37 PM
poncho62's Avatar
Out of the Loop Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Streetbeasts links
Last journal entry: at car show
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hanover, Ontario, Canada
Age: 62
Posts: 16,858
Wiki Edits: 5

Thanks: 20
Thanked 247 Times in 201 Posts
Yor ring gear isn't coming loose, is it?

When you got the 2nd starter, did it start good 20 times also?

If not, something has moved slightly.......
__________________
Ontario Rodders

Budget RVs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2004, 03:41 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Waco,Tx
Posts: 28
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
No I havent been able to start it since. The flexplate doesnt look like its comin apart, it seems to spin fine. Thats what I was thinkin something moved but readin about the elictrical issue I have been thinkin. But Im not sure so I am at a standstill and ready to shoot it
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2004, 05:31 PM
Member
 

Last journal entry: JB's 37 Pickup
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Smoky Mountains
Age: 76
Posts: 2,358
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Sack, I have some posts on this problem. First, there are no nose braces that will bolt in your Gen. I block and reach the gear reduction starter. I tried making one but no luck. My starter was an after market one from Auto Zone. My block was a 74 4 bolt main with the three bolt pattern and I was using the diagonal pattern starter. It turned out that the starter mounting block had too much material and the gear was not engaging the flex ring gear deep enough. It was forcing the drive gear out enough to bend the starter bolts. I milled of about .025 from the mounting face, but needed to take another .025, but could not do that in our little mill. I ended up talking with Powermaster and learned they made starters for high compression engines and one that you could put in three bolts if the block was drilled for it. That took care of my starter problem. Sounds like you must have the same starter I had since you can't get enough engagement ie, shimming made it worse. Bet you have bent bolts as well. By the way, Summit Racing provided my Powermaster. You have to tell them what you want because it is not listed in their catalog.

Trees
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2004, 06:12 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Waco,Tx
Posts: 28
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What bugs me is that it is sticking on the flex plate. How much did that starter run ya. I have this in a 91 s10 and I lack alot of room which is why i am using that starter to begin with. My engine is only 10:1. Not to high. I originally used reg bolts because i couldnt find any to fit right. I work at a GM dealership in parts and I went ahead and ordered some factory ones. It seemd to help but not well enough. I thjink maybe its still shifting cause that is a torquie lil starter so i dunno.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2004, 07:40 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Waco,Tx
Posts: 28
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
well I had a friend come over and crawled under while i kicked it over. He said its not deep enough in the grooves and thats my problem. Can I solve this by shimming the outside like he suggested?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2004, 07:55 PM
Member
 

Last journal entry: JB's 37 Pickup
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Smoky Mountains
Age: 76
Posts: 2,358
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Sack, shimming only lets the drive gear extend further toward the rear of the flex plate. If you mean "deeper into the teeth of the flex plate" then the starter must be closer to the mounting boss. The only fix for that is to mill off material on the starter mounting block, or buy a starter that is manufactured correctly. The cheap labor overseas just does not understand tolerances and the suits that draw up the contracts don't understand them either so we suffer from poor parts. Your 10.1 compression is too much for an OEM replacement starter that is designed for a maximum of 8-1 compression. The Powermaster is pricey: about $160 if I remember correctly. With new factory bolts you should get a few starts, but they will bend also and you will be back to square one. If you have not looked at the bolts you replaced, do so and I think you will find them bent.

Trees
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2004, 08:02 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Waco,Tx
Posts: 28
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you. I will do so tomarrow as i do not feel like it tonight. I will let ya know more as I do it. thanks again

oh and what is the size difference in the powermaster starter than what i am using(gear reduction)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2004, 11:53 AM
daubs's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: santa rosa, ca
Age: 31
Posts: 7
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by trees
The cheap labor overseas just does not understand tolerances and the suits that draw up the contracts don't understand them either so we suffer from poor parts.

thats why i avoid offshore products like the plague whenever possible. plus its just a good economic practice to buy american, a union blue collar boy could do nothing less
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2004, 05:11 PM
Member
 

Last journal entry: JB's 37 Pickup
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Smoky Mountains
Age: 76
Posts: 2,358
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Sack, the Powermaster should fit any place yours does, size wise. There is a slight difference in where the wires hook up. It is a very well made piece of equipment and has a great warranty. Have you check your block to see if you have all three holes to utilize the three bolt pattern? If so, it will never move once torqued down!!

Trees
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2004, 05:14 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Waco,Tx
Posts: 28
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
yes I have all 3 holes. Im gonna try a few things tonight and see if I can get it workin but next will prob be the powermaster
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2004, 08:40 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Waco,Tx
Posts: 28
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well tonight i decided to pull the shim out I had in it again. I kicked it over and it fired right up. Dont know what the deal is or was but I am not having a problem now. It kicks right were it should and runs good. All I really did was replace the bolts. The ones that were in it were not bent but I dont know. Obe thing I have learned over this is not to over analyze a problem which I have done. And I have lost sleep over it. So it runs now and I am happy. thanks for help and insight

David
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2004, 10:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: OR
Age: 38
Posts: 4
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
New style gear redution GM starters require the use of factory type knurled shank bolts.(as do old style non gear reduction). Not using them can cause the starter to buck out of allignment, and bind up.When tightening the bolts tighten untill the knurl on one bolt enters the block then the other, then tighten both to 35 lb-ft. (check engagement) should be fine. Buy AMERICAN!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Electrical posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.