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Old 09-19-2007, 06:53 PM
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another STUPID 305 queston

hi i pulled the frount down the timing chain has fiber gears with parts missing chain is loose.im suprised it didnt leave me stranded.im trying to warm it up a little bit have a new edelbrock cam
204/214 duration@0.50
.420/.442 lift
im sitting here looking at it whouldnt take much to pull heads i allready have gaskets.i have a set of camel hump heads i know the chambers are larger so ill loose a little compression but whould the flow make up for it. and give me a little more. also as soon as i get it back from the rebuilder i have a b&m 144blower i can put on for laughs.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:56 PM
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What in the world are you working on that has any kind of fiber gear?
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:59 PM
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These were very common in many engines for many years. GM, Ford and Mopar all used this crap.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holder350
What in the world are you working on that has any kind of fiber gear?
He said it was a 305.

My old '74 Chevy 350 also had fiber gears in it originally (honestly, where DO they find these engineers at???)

I dunno if the flow from the camel hump heads would offset the compression loss or not.

I think putting a blower on a 305, especially one that's not been properly prepped, would not be a good idea.

Pulling heads and stuff . . . it's not that far from pulling the whole engine and then replacing it with something a little more performance friendly.

/Steve
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:17 PM
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To be honest with you, I wouldn`t use the camel backs, Cylinder pressure plays a big role in power output as well, if it`s not there to support the increased flow there will be no power gain, you`ll just find it`s harder to tune. The fiber coated gear was common, and this is the reason I tell anyone working on a factory stock engine get rid of the timing chain, it`s crap from the factory. First things first, remove the oil pan and clean out the oil pump screen, why? all the plastic that came off the timing gear where do you think it went? exactly, sucked up by the oil pump screen, I`ve seen this crap seize a heck of a lot more than 1 engine due to blocking up the oil pump. Since the oil pan is off, remove the number 1 main cap and the number 1 rod cap, inspect the bearings, if you see copper, I wouldn`t bother to go any further, the lack of oil pressure due to the gummed oil pump screen causes more wear on the bearings the furthest away from the oil pump. If the bearings look okay then go on with the current cam you have. Just remember to find a oil that still has a zinc package so the cam don`t go flat during break in. Check the casting numbers of the heads on the 305, if they aren`t 601 or 416 castings dump them. I would go to the junk yard a find a set of 416 castings. These heads flow decent and they have the same size chamber so you won`t loose your compression. If you wanted to get really creative you could do a very mild bowl clean up of these heads and that little effort will help them somewhat. When you throw it all back together, then I would tune it up with the best pieces avalible. I would add a advance curve kit to the mechanical advance, brass terminal cap, spiral core spark plug wires. a K&N air filter. Make sure you get the springs that match the camshaft, if not, you really won`t see a gain from the cam.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwopper07
hi i pulled the frount down the timing chain has fiber gears with parts missing chain is loose.im suprised it didnt leave me stranded.im trying to warm it up a little bit have a new edelbrock cam
204/214 duration@0.50
.420/.442 lift
im sitting here looking at it whouldnt take much to pull heads i allready have gaskets.i have a set of camel hump heads i know the chambers are larger so ill loose a little compression but whould the flow make up for it. and give me a little more. also as soon as i get it back from the rebuilder i have a b&m 144blower i can put on for laughs.
This sounds like a high mileage old motor, it isn't going to like big heads, or cam let alone a blower. Plus if it's connected to an automatic there's no reason to assume it's in any better shape than the engine, they wear out at the same rate as the engine which is to say as the engine ages its power output drops, as the transmission ages its ability to transfer power also drops. So if you beef up the engine and not the transmission, it gives up in the middle of nowhere or if you live in LA the inside lane of the freeway at rush hour, so you can't get over.

Plus youre headed in a wrong direction, as cam timing and lift increase, the engine needs more compression. Lowering the compression with bigger chambered heads, slowing the mixture velocity with bigger ports, adding a bigger cam and intake/carburetor will kill what little performance the engine already has by moving the power peaks about a 1000 RPM higher for torque and horsepower respectivly, unless you change rear gears to speed the revs up, you end up with less power than you have now and the engine gets boggy and doggy.

I'd just put a new timing set on it, a cheap one at that. Then start cogitating on what you want to do with this car, as in get rid of it or start saving to fix it up, which ever works for ya.

In the end it's all about money; "Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?".

Bogie

Last edited by oldbogie; 09-19-2007 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:42 PM
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wow never seen a motor with a fiber gear on it........never sold any so the replacements must all be steel.
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:28 PM
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I think "fiber" is the wrong word to describe the cam gear. It was more of a light yellowish nylon coated gear that after many miles got brittle and the nylon broke off. I heard it was installed to quiet the gear noise (???)
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holder350
wow never seen a motor with a fiber gear on it........
I think almost every SBC built for many years had nylon coated timing gears. The gears themselves are still steel but they have a thick nylon coating around them like 327NUT said. The stuff gets hard and falls apart after many miles. Timing chains loosen up and could jump time, the pieces can clog the oil pump pickup like previously suggested. The last 350 I pulled apart had the same mess in the oil pan.

If you pull the timing cover off just about any high mileage SBC from the 60s or 70s (and maybe even later than that) the chances are good you'll find the same thing. A very common replacement is the double roller chain.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:06 PM
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305 heads flow like crap I mean its a smog motor with smog heads. If I was going to re-build a 305 the first thing I would do is pull off those heads and put them in a smelter, worthless pieces of iron, and never look at them again. Thats a fine choice on the cam but you need new heads and possibly a re-build. Plus a new timing set won't break your bank. That blower won't do anything but break your motor if it has as many miles as I think it has, not to mention the block castings for 305 were made on the cheap.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:16 PM
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im a idot! i should have known with the moron i bought this from.the block number is a 305 but the head number is333882 the book says 76cc 350/400 ill pull both of them in the morning to see what i have.i dont think its high milage because its so clean inside i know he put the motor in it tranny is new i have the recept he also put the carb and manifold on it maybe he thought 400 heads whould make it better
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:36 PM
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You got a leaky spark tube...
 
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305s typically have 58cc chambers. Those 76cc 882 heads will kill your compression. Not all 305 heads are bad. As DoubleVision suggested, the 416 castings are decent and should help your 305 make some decent power.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:38 PM
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If it has 882 castings it`s gotta be a turd. There big chambers lowered the compression ratio down to about 6:1. The result is real sluggish performance.
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:36 AM
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The best chance you have with that 305 is to swap alot of stuff out. If this block can do it (like I said 305 blocks are cheap) bore it out and add newer higher compression pistons (9.5:1 for iron heads, 11.0:1 for aluminum), get yourself some new heads comperable to the pistons (I'd go with 58 cc seeing how small your bore is knowing how how much you need compression in this engine). A new intake (I like Edelbrock rpm air-gap or victor jr) with carb spacer and a 4 barrel 600cfm carb. New cam is a must and if you have the money go full roller soild. This set up should make close to 340-360 hp at 7500 rpm. But then again you could cut your loses get a 350 or 400 block spend the same amount and make 100-200 hp more. My 2 cents.
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