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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
IMO....larger OD valve springs provide more valve spring seat and open pressure.
Well, this opinion is not only useless but in many cases wrong. The pressure the spring provides is the pressure it provides- the OD is irrelevant. A larger OD should be avoided if you can though because it does increase the mass of the spring.

Spring OD, ID, material, thickness, shape, height, coil count, etc. all go into making the spring's open and closed pressure. Increasing the OD is one of the last things they will do to increase the pressure though as it increases the mass which can lead to surge. People spend a LOT of money on spring material just to keep the OD down while supplying the required pressures.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:32 AM
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I can't even see his posts unless someone quotes him. But to his credit he at least added 'IMO' as a qualifier instead of stating it as fact.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
Well, this opinion is not only useless but in many cases wrong. The pressure the spring provides is the pressure it provides- the OD is irrelevant. A larger OD should be avoided if you can though because it does increase the mass of the spring.

Spring OD, ID, material, thickness, shape, height, coil count, etc. all go into making the spring's open and closed pressure. Increasing the OD is one of the last things they will do to increase the pressure though as it increases the mass which can lead to surge. People spend a LOT of money on spring material just to keep the OD down while supplying the required pressures.
Show me a valve spring that has 350 lb.open pressure and can be fitted at 1.750" and is 1.250" OD. You cannot can you. That blows you theory into the weeds.

IMO.........The wire diameter must be increased to increase the spring rate and must fit in a certain installed height AND diameter. If the wire diameter will not allow the spring to be fitted in a prescribed OD and height, the OD and height must be increased.

I added "IMO" just to make this self proclaimed forum cop happy.That seems to be a weed in his ***.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
Show me a valve spring that has 350 lb.open pressure and can be fitted at 1.750" and is 1.250" OD. You cannot can you. That blows you theory into the weeds.

Howards 98215, I use them all the time.


98215 Single with Damper 1.265 dia 115 @ 1.800 380 @ 1.200

@1.75 you have about 135#'s on the seat which works well for a solid flat tappet


There's also PAC1409's and Isky's 295D

All standard Stock Eliminator stuff.

At one point we were running 180# on the seat with Schubecks but we've backed off some.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by engineczar View Post
Howards 98215, I use them all the time.


98215 Single with Damper 1.265 dia 115 @ 1.800 380 @ 1.200
1.250" OD and 1.750" height fits without machine work.

I agree with your example.....
Larger valve spring = higher pressure.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
1.250" OD and 1.750" height fits without machine work.

I agree with your example.....
Larger valve spring = higher pressure.
actually his example just shot your "opinion" to ****. Its smaller than a lot of springs that provide less pressure. It's a spring that fits in a stock location- NOT a larger spring.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
1.250" OD and 1.750" height fits without machine work.

I agree with your example.....
Larger valve spring = higher pressure.
???


My example is to demonstrate that you can get a stock diameter spring with 350# of open pressure.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:52 PM
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When I mean larger spring, I not only mean larger OD and height but I also include larger wire diameter.

In order to use a spring with a larger wire diameter, it must be a taller spring or compromise the coil bind or use a camshaft with less lift.

Well spit! A high lift camshaft was what you wanted in the first place or you would not have been trying to fit a larger and stronger valve spring. Right?

Lets go to dual springs then and keep the small wire diameter so not to compromise the coil bind height, Doggone it! You must have a larger diameter outer spring to accept the inner spring. Right?
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:56 PM
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So what do you do when the rules specify "stock valve spring diameter"?
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:16 PM
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That rule implies "stock valve spring pressure" because the rule makers know the best way to limit valve spring pressure is to limit the valve spring size to the stock diameter.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
When I mean larger spring, I not only mean larger OD and height but I also include larger wire diameter.

In order to use a spring with a larger wire diameter, it must be a taller spring or compromise the coil bind or use a camshaft with less lift.


Lets go to dual springs then and keep the small wire diameter so not to compromise the coil bind height, Doggone it! You must have a larger diameter outer spring to accept the inner spring. Right?
First off, when you're dead wrong, no one can guess that you didn't really mean what you said, if that is the case then there is really no point in saying anything as its never what you meant.

Secondly a thicker wire diameter can be ran with a shorter spring or a smaller OD.

Lastly, with a different spring material you can run smaller diameter, and smaller OD and a shorter spring and still end up with more pressure and travel.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:45 PM
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A stock SBC valve spring has about 80-90#'s on the seat and 240#'s open.

If you look hard enough there are springs that will give you over 200# on the seat and over 400# open and will fit into a stock package if setup correctly.

Not recommended for daily drivers but for class racing it's pretty common.

I'm not quite sure how this thread got so off topic. The reality is while it's easier to get higher pressures with bigger diameter springs, the statement you made about there being no stock diameter springs that can give you 350# open is just not factual in this day and age.

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