Any cam gurus here? can you tell from a lobe, what it is? - Page 3 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008, 10:15 PM
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To get an idea of if it is solid or hydraulic you need to map out the first .020" of lifter rise. Turn the cam 1 degree at a time and write down how much it lifted. Once you get it all mapped out somebody should be able to tell you if it is a hydraulic or a solid and how much to lash it at if it is a solid. You can also check all the other parameters of the cam like LSA and duration at .050".


Here is a degree wheel I made, I just print it up on a printer and tape it to an old license plate:
http://www.hotrodders.com/gallery/da...egreewheel.jpg

I'm not sure on this but I think the camshaft should be in your block with a lifter on it when you do it, because of the angle between the lifter and the camshaft.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-29-2008, 08:16 AM
F&J F&J is offline
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Here's what I got on a stable steel bench. I tried to do the reading by each degree, but that is tough at the beginning part.

So I did one thousand" at a time and recorded the degrees.

.001 @ 15* (15* from where it appears to "start" to move the indicator)
.002 @ 20
.003 @ 24
.004 @ 26
.005 @ 28
.006 @ 29
.007 @ 30
.008 @ 31
.009 @ 32
.010 @ 33
.011 @ 33.5
.012 @ 34
.013 @ 35
.014 @ 36-
.015 @ 36.5
.016 @ 37.5
.018 @ 38.5
.019 @ 39
.020 @ 39.5

This was an intake lobe turning in the correct direction. Also using a very large degree wheel made for motor work. Lots of space between each degree for accuracy.

Any thoughts so far???
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-29-2008, 12:49 PM
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I think its a hydraulic because it starts to pick up the valve quickly at about .005"
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Old 02-29-2008, 07:11 PM
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Were they grinding a small fast bump early in the ramp in hydraulic cams back then to "set" the lifter's check valve?

Later, mikey
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:20 PM
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Ok, don't laugh, but I made a quick jig to hold a lifter to do the test better than just using an indicator on the lobe. I know it's still not the same as in the motor but I just can't take my motor apart yet. I tacked some angle iron together to hold a Ford flathead lifter That's all I have


I was told to look for the transition from slight lift to steady lift during the first 20 degrees or so, and that measurement would likely be close to the lash setting IF it was a solid cam.

Near as I can tell it is .005-.006 using the lifter test. Sooo, If it was a solid, the lash around 5 or 6 would not be "normal", so I am 99.9% sure this is hydraulic. Now that seems odd for a performance cam from the early 60s, but Crower said it most likey was a "custom grind". I am thinking they just did not want to buy the required adjustable rockers to be able to go with a solid cam.

Thanks for all the suggestions & PMs
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:40 AM
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I , apparently different than the others, think it's a solid cam. The "H"was used at one time for a "Hot" cam, so it may have no bearing of whether it is hyd. or solid. It appears to be a new unused cam to me, the darkness looks like parkerizing and the bearing surfaces don't seem to have any wear. I will look through some old 50s and 60s speed catalogs I have to see if there is any references.
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:01 AM
F&J F&J is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodz428
I , apparently different than the others, think it's a solid cam. The "H"was used at one time for a "Hot" cam, so it may have no bearing of whether it is hyd. or solid. It appears to be a new unused cam to me, the darkness looks like parkerizing and the bearing surfaces don't seem to have any wear. I will look through some old 50s and 60s speed catalogs I have to see if there is any references.
Yes, it is a new-old cam in the original shipping box. I can't read the postage date. There is no Zip code or the earlier 2 digit postal code so it is at least from the early 60s...no later that 1964 for sure.

What about the lift/rise readings off the cam lobe? are you saying they did not do the lash ramps the same back then? I was hoping someone had an old Crower catalog. Thanks
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Old 03-03-2008, 03:04 PM
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Well I sure have read a lot of cam stuff in searches. I just get too many vague descriptions of what the difference really is in lash ramps on solid or hyd. And..I realized I needed to multiply the ramp movement by the rocker ratio.. which is 1.8 on most early Olds, and that figures out to .009-.011 valve adjustment. (not what I said earlier )

here is a post I found on the web: "There is a short area of the lobe leading edge which raises the lifter quickly but slightly to force the check valve in the lifter to slam shut and trap its oil. The remainder of the lobe is ground at the normal ramp/rate. A solid lifter cam grind typically does not have this feature."

That first sentence is sort of what Mikey said a few days ago. But then how is that different than a lash ramp for a solid? I am still lost here.

The only thing I can do now is maybe borrow a couple of aftermarket cams, one hyd, one solid, and try to measure ramp style differences. I'm not giving up just yet
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Old 03-03-2008, 03:26 PM
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Try phoning up crower or some other cam companies and tell them your measurements and ask them what they think. You could try finding udharold's phone number and call him, apparently he is very helpful. He posts on speedtalk and chevelles.com
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:25 PM
F&J F&J is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiscus
Try phoning up crower or some other cam companies and tell them your measurements and ask them what they think. You could try finding udharold's phone number and call him, apparently he is very helpful. He posts on speedtalk and chevelles.com
I found some info on opening rates for hyd vs. solids on that Chevelle site posted by UDHarold. I'll have to check the cam rate by each degee this time.
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:25 AM
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I took the advice from Fiscus, and posted my measurements on Speedtalk. "Camking" replied and quoted one single sentence in my entire post:

[Quote] F&J wrote:
I find a short ramp that ends at approximately .005-.006 of lifter movement.


Camking wrote: That's a hydraulic cam. [Quote/].

So, I waited a day to see if the other cam designer, UDHarold would go against that answer or not; no reply. So, I think I found an answer.

Then I searched Hamb archives and found the journal sizes listed by Don_Wow, the guru of early olds engines on the Hamb....and yes, this cam fits my 324. I then asked a question on that old thread, about the ".570 lift on stock pistons" and he replied that the max on a 324 Olds is in the upper .580s and "it should be fine".

Thanks to all who helped on this; I wouldn't have found the info without this thread on HR.
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