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Old 01-06-2005, 04:59 PM
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Any Diesel Engine Mechanics On Board?

Help!!! I have a D3B Cat Dozer with a 3204 Cat motor that has dropped a cylinder. I have pulled the head and found a chunk out of the piston and a cracked cylinder liner. I suspect a bad injector is the root cause but would not bet the farm on that. I basically know little about diesels and need some ideals fro any pros that we may have on board.

The head looks good and not warped. There is no sign of any damage from the chunk from the piston which came out the exhaust stack in the form of molten aluminum flakes. Have not checked the head for warpage nor have I pulled the valves to see if there is any damage there. I have not pulled the engine yet because the dozer is in the field and can not get a hauler to it. Tomorrow, I hope to get it out and to the shop. After tear down and doing a lot of mic work, I'll try to make a decision on whether to take it to a machine shop that specializes on this type motor and have the liner replaced. I definitely will take the head with the injectors installed and the injector pump to a guy that knows how to check, rebuild and time the components. I do not have any tech manuals on this engine and at this time am reluctant to spend the big bucks to get them. I sure could use the torque values and any other pointers that any of you may have. Any and all info/ideals will be greatly appreciated.

By the way, this is not a money making machine. It is used on my sons mountain farm for keeping up pastures, logging roads, fence lines and erosion control.

Trees

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Old 01-06-2005, 05:02 PM
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Old 01-06-2005, 05:53 PM
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trees,

Did the engine run out of fuel?
Has it been using any water?
Has it been getting hot?
Did it smoke Black or White?

You will need to take the injectors off of the head and hand them to the shop people and have them do a pressure test. They will know if they need to be repaired.
I would have the injector pump looked at too. The pump is the part that goes bad most of the time. And if the tractor does not get much use then the fuel could have some contamination in it which will cause the pump to eat itself.

Good Luck
Scholman
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Old 01-06-2005, 05:54 PM
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good poss. that it was a failed inj.also check the oil spray nozzle at the bottom of the cyl. but usualy if it breaks you would loose some oil psi esp.at idle.could have just been time to give up.
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Old 01-06-2005, 07:07 PM
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Trees,

What are you up to now?

I would try some of the antique tractor forums. Pops is on one quite a bit, I think it's called yesterday's tractor or something like that.

I'm sure some of the old farmers could steer you straight.

here is the link trees. They have some forums, and I think you'll probably find some help. http://www.yesterdaystractor.com/

Last edited by NAIRB; 01-06-2005 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 01-06-2005, 08:25 PM
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Sholman, did not run out of fuel, and the fuel has been filtered before going into the tank, I have drained a bit before each use, and have replaced the fuel filters as per operators manual. Yes I was loosing coolant, which tracked to a failing 3/4 elbow going to the fuel cooler. Temp guage never was out of the green range because I was able to catch slight rise in temp when it first happened. There was very little smoke after reaching operating temp and never had any white smoke from the stack. Just before the cylinder went dead, white smoke came from breather, which I am sure was steam from the cracked liner. Coolant temp was in the green and there was no boiling at any time. If I keep this engine, I will definitely have the pros go thru the Injectors and Pump before building back.

NAIRB, I checked the tractor site quickly and did not see much there to help. I have been talking to some of the local heavy equipment guys and am getting mixed signals. Some say the 3204 is a very reliable engine, some say it is a "throw away" engine, some say rebuild, some say get a short block (4 grand with exchange) and some say get a "certified" used motor. I am in contact with an outfit called Carter Machinery that is a big new and used Cat company with about 20 dealerships within 500 miles, looking for a good used engine that will come with a 90 day warranty. It is supposed to be ready to bolt in, hook up and go to work. What ever I do, I don't want to have to do this twice!! This big stuff is too hard on an old man!! Fortunately, we are having some very mild weather that is going to last through next week. Just maybe I can get this done by then.

Trees
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Old 01-06-2005, 09:38 PM
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I would think if you had an injector problem like a tip blow off or stick open you would also have a scored cylinder and possible melted piston.
If the cylinder is just split no scoring head gasket probably just let go and it hydrauliced that cylinder.

Last edited by Greg Latvala; 01-08-2005 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:40 AM
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sounds more like liner pitting.do you run the nitride additives in the coolant .
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Old 01-07-2005, 05:25 AM
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Greg, the piston is intact except for a chunk broken out. There is some of the piston showing enough heat to cause some melting. Can not see any scoring on the liner. The other cylinders and pistons are in extremely good shape from what I can see. There is no appreciable ring groove and some honing cross hatches are still visible from the last rebuild by Cat and I have only put about 500 hours on the machine since buying it.

Engineman, I have not added any additive to the coolant. We will see if there is any pitting when the sleeve comes out.


Tree
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Old 01-07-2005, 06:04 PM
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If there were flakes coming out of the exhaust you can bet there will be some junk under the valves.
The fuel pump is just a delivery system, the injectors do the work and all the cylinder's would show some type of problem if it went bad.
Did you happen to look at the injector tip, Or the oil nozzle as mentioned by engineman302 & Greg Latvala.
Water would have done more damage than that.
On the oil pressure you could have to busy watching the junk out the muffler & not look at the gauge while this was happening.
Did you clean the head real good to look and see if anything did hit it & between piston ? Had to ask.
Any small piece of metal or (maybe a small piece of the piston broke off) in the cylinder can heat up enough to give it denotation and eat up the piston as described.
Have any pics of the piston?
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:13 PM
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I agree with 1bad80 about the fuel pump not being the problem and just to let you know,in case you don't already, you're looking at upwards of $900 to have that pump rebuilt. BTW, no engine made by CAT is a throw away. good luck with your rebuild. rick
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Old 01-08-2005, 12:33 AM
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I sell all the old 3208 that come outta the sportfishin boats .. IN PISS POOR condtion, for 10k a pair. to a remanufacturein center in san jose.. the cores is like 7500 on rebuilts, so I give the owners a g and pocket the 1500. all the ol 32 series is a valueble motor now.. a guy here just had hi 3216's sent in for a rebuild 43k a piece later... he has nice runnin engines.. them big diesels$$$
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Old 01-08-2005, 08:07 AM
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Bad, I don't have a pic of the piston now, but can get one. The chunk missing is about 1.25 inches long, .5' wide and about .325" thick. You probably know the piston has a large dish, and starts about .5" from the outer edge and is about .5" deep. I understand what you and Vette mean about the pump. And Kultured, the core charge on the 3204 is $956 here so you have a great deal going except I would hate to be the one hauling the 8 and 16s from the salt water rigs!!

Thanks for you inputs. I'll keep you posted as I plod down an unfamiliar path. We had some piddling rain that kept me off the job yesterday..

Trees
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Old 01-08-2005, 12:37 PM
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they use a 25 ton fork lift, I dont do it.. I have nothin to do with the mechanics end other then installing the shafts and cutless bearings. I try to get everyone to go with luggers or cumminsas inlines are SOME much smouther. BUT. the word marine in front of anything adss 400% to the price...
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Old 02-08-2005, 01:32 AM
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How hot have your exhaust temperatures been? have you lugged the engine harder than usual right before this? at all? Injector pump timing? You havnt used any either starting this engine have you? When was the last air filter change? If you cant figure it out, I have a guy that works for me that has been working on Cats since 1935. he knows all.... and I can get you an answer.
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