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Old 12-28-2011, 11:45 AM
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Any last thoughts before the build?

For my road race car (still working on the chassis yet) the engine that is being put together goes as follows.

small journal 327 bored 40 over KEEPING the 3.25 crankshaft making it a 333ci motor. I am also having the mains splayed. Full arp studs for heads and mains.

5.7 rods (i already have them)

800 holly double pumper carb

The heads (i was told the springs would be perfect for the cam?)
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...12#moreDetails

The intake (i will be having it gasket matched to the heads which should up the operating range also)
http://www.jegs.com/i/Weiand/925/7547-1/10002/-1

The rockers (i have yet to determine if i should go the extra mile and get a girdle as well)
http://www.jegs.com/i/Harland+Sharp/851/1001/10002/-1

The Forged pistons (should be around 10.4-10.5:1 compression)
http://www.jegs.com/i/Sealed+Power/8...6NF40/10002/-1

The cam (i think i am going to degree the cam to 110 instead of 108)
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=232&sb=0

head gasket(.41 i didn't want too big because of the quench squish affect)
http://www.jegs.com/i/Fel-Pro/375/11...oductId=758649

Headers(180 degree header part#180-1)
http://www.schoenfeldheaders.com/180_crossover.htm

I am also considering this unit
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/MarineRacing.html

Just wanted a quick update to those of you that know me for 1 and 2 to see if there are any rebuttals to what is going together here.

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Last edited by blight; 12-28-2011 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:55 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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that cam is a little long on duration and for the $1200 those heads cost you can find better out there. Also, don't pick your head gasket until you know your deck clearance- unless you're just having it zero decked.

That intake is a total POS, if you don't have to use it then don't. The only people that use it use it because they are required to by rules.

If you want individual cylinder control do yourself a favor and step up to a full EFI/spark control unit, I like MS (MS3 has individual cylinder control) but there are plenty of others out there too.

The rockers you show are for 3/8" stud- there's really no reason to not run 7/16" stud.
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:12 PM
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the only better 195 head in comparison is the afr eliminator.

I can't find another single plane intake that has that operating range. the vic jr is 3000rpm, that is too late.

why run a 7/16" stud?
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:20 PM
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http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm

some flow info on many heads to consider. from my understanding the only guys running votecs is because they have to but clearly the engine quest flows better. so to me its about running iron and money. i need to run aluminum.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:09 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blight
the only better 195 head in comparison is the afr eliminator.

I can't find another single plane intake that has that operating range. the vic jr is 3000rpm, that is too late.

why run a 7/16" stud?
You probably don't want to use a single plane, especially a box stock one.

a 7/16" stud flexes less, won't need a girdle.

If you can't find a better head then you need to look a LOT harder- there's plenty of them out there.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:42 PM
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IMHO the setup screams higher RPM power but you're looking to keep it low. It's not going to happen with that cam/head combo. Smaller engines don't do well with longer duration cams unless you're looking to turn a lot of RPM and keep it there. If your budget allows look at a roller cam in the 230-235 range with as much lift as the valve springs will allow. A 195cc head with a 333cu/in engine is a little bit much as there's a lot less cylinder to fill so it's going to be a bit lazy down low. Also ditto on the 7/16 studs if you're getting new rockers as well.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:24 PM
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For the intake, consider the AirGap RPM or Crosswind. They will both out perform the single you have selected. I use one and have good torque pulling out of turn with out down shifting from 2500rpms up. Even so I still spin to 7000rpms for shifts.

Heads look decent, though I agree they are too big for a small SBC. Look at 180cc runners. That head flow chart is dated and several heads have been updated. Also some are hobbiest tested, some are magazine tested and some are manufacturer's claims. Not enough consistency for me to make an educated choice.

Take a look at scorpion rockers, little better quality, USA made, IMO for about the same price. I have been very impressed with mine.

As for ignition, use an HEI and be done. No performance gains with any other system IMO. Maybe a 6al box for multi spark at low rpms.

Carb looks big to me. Unless rules demand a carb, I would skip the frustration of road racing with one and just go EFI. Check out the Powerjection III, self contained and self learning. Simple set up that won't lean out in long high G turns. I started with a nice Proform racing carb. Did all the road race mods, still hated it.

BTW what's the reason for going with a small SBC instead of say a 350 or 383? I find the large flat torque curve of my 383 allows for low RPM digs with out waiting to get back into the power band or having to downshift as much. Plus with a 350 block you can get an L31 or ZZ4 block roller ready. A solid roller will live longer at high RPMs.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:35 PM
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I am going to throw my 2 cents in. I like the World Sportsman heads. And yes a 7/16 stud, if you can use them, why not. I too like the Scorpion Rockers, although I tried to order through thier website this week and it seems to be down. I do however like that old 30-30 cam, but it is definetly a higher RPM range cam. Yes I like the Edelbrock 7501 air gap. There are some copies out there, dont be fooled by imitations!!
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:14 PM
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The stroke is for pistons speed, and i have a 3.25 forged crank. I am not looking for JUST high rpm power i am looking for a large rpm range. the cam is good from 2300- 6900rpm the. the intake (which the air gap does look better but has the same rpm range as the other) is from 1500-6500rpm. WIDE RANGE OF POWER. Duly noted on the 7/16" stud scorpion rocker set. the 195 was recommended by Guy Henson from D&G motors (based on my cam and what I want to do) he has had stuff go to LA etc. fairly famous guy up here in the MN.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:38 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blight
The stroke is for pistons speed, and i have a 3.25 forged crank. I am not looking for JUST high rpm power i am looking for a large rpm range. the cam is good from 2300- 6900rpm the. the intake (which the air gap does look better but has the same rpm range as the other) is from 1500-6500rpm. WIDE RANGE OF POWER. Duly noted on the 7/16" stud scorpion rocker set. the 195 was recommended by Guy Henson from D&G motors (based on my cam and what I want to do) he has had stuff go to LA etc. fairly famous guy up here in the MN.
For a road racing engine with decent gearing 195's will be just about perfect.

The cam and intake are both pretty bad choices. If they were free I might use them but id never pay money for them. But you'll find that out eventually...

Btw "piston speed" is along the least of your concerns. A well built 383 can take 7000 rpm all day long too- it has very little to do with the stroke.

The engine your proposing looks like something that was slapped together with "swap meet finds" (ie old discarded junk) for $500, only you're paying a lot more for the same performance. If it was made from a bunch of free parts then so be it, but I wouldn't spend money on it.
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:11 PM
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Won't the smaller displacement move the operating range of the cam and intake up in rpms vs a 350? Just thinking the cam range will be a few hundred higher.
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:31 AM
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I would look into the TFS 21 degree cylinder head. It uses 23 degree hardware and has a 185cc port but it flows exceptionally well, 285cfm. With 333 cubes to feed a slightly smaller port will keep velocity high. I would run some 1.6 rockers on the camshaft to get a little more lift. Also a performer RPM manifold would stomp that Weiand single plane.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:02 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelster
I would look into the TFS 21 degree cylinder head. It uses 23 degree hardware and has a 185cc port but it flows exceptionally well, 285cfm. With 333 cubes to feed a slightly smaller port will keep velocity high. I would run some 1.6 rockers on the camshaft to get a little more lift. Also a performer RPM manifold would stomp that Weiand single plane.
What is the port length? Min/average CSA? You can't directly compare port volumes of two different types of heads. Also, I have not used them myself but I have heard of valve train wear issues with those heads due to the altered geometry- and then there is the valve to piston clearance issue.

The head size he's looking at is optimal for the RPM range he is asking for, yes they're a little big for a street car that never sees over 4500 RPM, but he said he is looking for a road race car with a power peak around 6,000 or a little more.

Even the heads he has chosen, while they are not optimal, could make a 500hp 327, and make that power below his peak RPM, BUT there's not a chance of that with that POS intake and cam- with those he is right around his goal of 400hp, which meets his goals but leaves a LOT on the table.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:34 AM
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Well you keep throwing my cam out the window (NOT GOING ROLLER PERIOD, It is not worth the extra money and i have some experience in solids) what about it and what would you not recommended? Also this will kick the rpm about 150 rpm both on the bottom and top, not really alot to speak of, so its like 2500 to 7000ish cam really. Its the WIDE cam that I am looking for. Other than this and the other cam I had mentioned before on my last thread, I am having a difficult time find a cam that will give me the most power compared to having a very wide rpm range of use. based on that what cam would you recommend?

Also the air gap does look like a better intake and i think that perhaps it would be a good idea to go with that, as well as those scorpion rockers at 7/16".
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:50 AM
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that cam btw- is a modernized z-28 cam so from my understanding this would be perfect for road racing, i guess i just really don't see what you see. neither did Guy Henson, nor does comp.
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