Anybody have experience installing Perfect Circle Plasma Moly Rings ? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:22 AM
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Anybody have experience installing Perfect Circle Plasma Moly Rings ?

Just wondering if anybody has personally had experience installing a set of Perfect Circle Plasma Moly rings ? I have a SBC that I "suspect" the rings may have been installed incorrectly or at least some of them. They were installed by an experienced builder and may have been installed wrong by accident (things happen to the best of them). Possibly the 2nd rings are upside down. Summit states "Perfect Circle precision ground performance piston rings are built so that they can't be installed incorrectly" is this true ??? Thanks.

I have attempted to contact the manufacturer (Mahle Clevite Inc) however unfortuneately the only form of contact is email (awaiting response).

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Last edited by y2k600f4; 03-09-2009 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 03-09-2009, 12:05 PM
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I can tell you the perfect circle rings I have could most definatly be installed incorrectly. However it would be alot of neglegence on my part.

If you install them incorrectly from the look on the profile of em... they won't do any good.

You'd have high oil consumption and low compression.
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Old 03-09-2009, 12:35 PM
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ChevyThunder....thanks for the info.

I talked to tech support at summit racing and they informed me the 2nd ring can't be installed upside down, however the 1st and 2nd rings can be installed in the wrong position. Compression in good 190PSI in every cylinder (dry) with a +15psi increase "wet". Just trying to figure out what could be wrong with the rings before I tear the engine apart. Thank.s
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k600f4
Just wondering if anybody has personally had experience installing a set of Perfect Circle Plasma Moly rings ? I have a SBC that I "suspect" the rings may have been installed incorrectly or at least some of them. They were installed by an experienced builder and may have been installed wrong by accident (things happen to the best of them). Possibly the 2nd rings are upside down. Summit states "Perfect Circle precision ground performance piston rings are built so that they can't be installed incorrectly" is this true ??? Thanks.

I have attempted to contact the manufacturer (Mahle Clevite Inc) however unfortuneately the only form of contact is email (awaiting response).
Aside from the design of a DYKES ring, I'm not aware of any feature that would keep a ring from being installed upside down.

I'm assuming you're making this question based on oil consumption, as your compression looks fine at 190 psi dry and 15 pound gain wet, this looks perfectly normal. Oil on the cylinder wall to ring interface is the normal operating environment for rings, they always show a gain of about 10-12% between dry and wet.

If the second ring is inverted, you will see elevated oil consumption. But given it doesn't sound like this enigne is broken-in, above normal oil consumption would be expected.

One also can consider whether a ring was broken on piston installation, if a second ring this would show as considerable oil consumption. As a top ring a loss of compression, but perhaps not a lot till the engine got some time on it and the ring was able to carve up the cylinder wall a bit. A broken second ring will also show up as a loss of compression when the top ring rides over the damage it's doing to the wall.

Bogie
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:33 PM
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Bogie...thank you for taking time to answer in such detail !! I appreciate your professional opinion and what you are saying makes sense 100%. Just want to really exhaust my understanding of what is going on before I have to pull the engine and have the machine shop tear apart my engine ($$). It does have 700 miles on it and was told that those plasma moly rings should of seated almost immediately, most defineatlely by 100 miles.

Just talked to the manufacturer and they confirmed these rings are installed with provided "standard" installation procedures. 2nd ring dot goes up etc Pretty basic and include detailed instructions.

Looks like my 2 possibilities are: 2nd rings were installed upside down and will forever pump oil in the compression chamber. Or during break-in did not "get on" it enough causing cylinder wall glazing. There is also the slight but unlikely event that incorrect honing was performed. Either way looks like a tear down is in order....just wanted to "exhaust" ALL possibilities first. Thanks.

Last edited by y2k600f4; 03-09-2009 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 03-10-2009, 05:29 AM
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oil

It has been my experience that there has to be major trouble for the rings to cause mass oil consumption. I am not sure how much oil you engine is using??? I am assuming a lot if youíre considering taking it apart.

A few years back I started building for a local dirt track team. The first engine I got from them to freshen was built by a local engine building hero. When I dis-assembled it the compression rings were swapped. Top moly ring in the second groove and the second ring was in the top groove. The engine did not use any more oil then normal for the race season. I actually thought it might have been some trick of the week deal to swap rings. I talk to some other builders and the guy just got them on wrong.

I also had a 355 street engine come in because the guy had a cam go flat. When I took it apart (it was built by another shop) I discovered that the bores had no cross hatch in them. They looked like they were bored right to size then hit with one of those junk 3 arm Craftsman hones. I never saw anything like it. I asked the customer how many qts it used in a week. His answer, NONE.

I would look at the intake tractís and see if they are full of oil, if so it probably sucked the gaskets. Thatís a common problem on the small blocks, Also if the rocker studs are threaded through the intake port and no sealer was applied they will suck oil like a freight train, again with a flashlight examine the intake ports for oil.

Keith
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:23 AM
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Keith....thanks for the info. I have been chasing this oil consumption issue for a while and I think it may be a combination of problems. First I pulled the intake expecting to see oil sucked up from the valley, the intake ports were bone dry. 2nd I fixed the PCV system...was missing a breather (only had PCV and oil fill cap), 3rd I added stock chevy baffle to the PCV port (after market) valve cover. Now trying to to rule out everything else before the last resort of a tear down. Thanks again.
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:59 AM
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oil

Can you post a picture of the plugs???

Keith
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:31 PM
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Pics of Plugs

Quote:
Can you post a picture of the plugs???
Keith these are some pics of prior to pulling the intake:





Pic of one of the intake ports


Last edited by y2k600f4; 03-11-2009 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:00 PM
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Plugs are yuky, ports look dry, what does the back side of the valves look like?

Hate to say it but it looks like you're gonna be doin' piston R&R.

Bogie
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Plugs are yuky, ports look dry, what does the back side of the valves look like? Hate to say it but it looks like you're gonna be doin' piston R&R. Bogie
When I pulled intake few months ago back side of valves looked fine. Yea, I know that a re-ring is inevitable. First time plugs were pulled since engine rebuild have not looked at them since, expect they look the same. I have made a some progress I think the problem was compounded due to lack of breather and baffles.
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Old 03-10-2009, 05:44 PM
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oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
Plugs are yuky, ports look dry, what does the back side of the valves look like?

Hate to say it but it looks like you're gonna be doin' piston R&R.

Bogie

Yep, It's coming apart...
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Yep, It's coming apart...

What I been figuring....we'll see how long I will put it off. Maybe be best to build a new engine and start from the beginning.
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:12 PM
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oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k600f4
What I been figuring....we'll see how long I will put it off. Maybe be best to build a new engine and start from the beginning.
I wouldn't jump to a conclusion, take it apart and lets see whats wrong with it.


Keith
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:54 AM
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I wouldn't jump to a conclusion, take it apart and lets see whats wrong with it.
I agree with that statement ! I was just thinking that this recently built 383 w/700 miles ~10.7:1 compression, Alum heads, eagle bottom end etc that is having the ring problems may not be the best combo for may application. If I could sell this and build a fresh mild 350 I think I may be better off, I think $ wise I will be shelling out either way.
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