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Anybody put an early hemi into a T bucket?

32K views 78 replies 20 participants last post by  MouseFink 
#1 · (Edited)
Last year, I bought a '53 331 Chry hemi off my buddy because he needed the money. I really didn't have any plans for it at the time. I was going to drop it into my '59 pickup, but the Olds 455 in my truck hasn't died yet. The engine is complete & it still has oil in it!! I picked up a few things for it since - '54 heads & a 4bbl intake, along with a manual transmission adapter plate & some other goodies + a healthy cam

I'm thinking a T bucket would be really cool.

Anyone have pics of something like this? I'm already looking at a few Speedway T bucket kits :D
 
#27 · (Edited)
I wound up having to tap the carb base heater chamber outlets and crank in a pair of 3/8"-16 bolts into the holes and re-bore the throttle ports. I bottomed the bolts and torgued them into the base of the threads before re-boring the ports.

At least 1/3 of the bolt was protruding (at an angle) into the throttle bore at the carb surface.

BTW, the "new" engine's balanced and ready to go together but we're just waiting on some camshaft issues that weren't adequately addressed by the folks at Crower on the last go-around. Miscommunication between management and the shop floor, I guess.
 
#28 ·
I just noticed. Your manifold doesn't have the two holes for the carburetor heater chamber. Mine (off a '54 New Yorker) had a pair of holes that lead to a chamber under the carburetor. The base gasket had a chaber in it to route the exhaust gasses under the Stromberg 4bbl carb to heat the base plate. These holes were so close to the bores that opening them up to accept an R-3310 Holley cut into those two exhaust crossover bores.
 
#29 ·
tjet said:
I do have a question: My hemi still has the original fluid auto trans bolted up to it. Does it have a standard flywheel inside of it? I don't know how these old Mopar autos work

Per Hotheads, I need to use a 146 tooth flywheel with their manual trans adapter kit
You need an eight bolt flywheel. Use a Chrysler/Dodge/DeSoto/Plymouth (flat, not dished) 146 tooth flywheel 1939-1956

If you had a '54-'’56 block and you wanted to use an adapter with a later model trans, you'd need the 130 tooth flywheel from a 426. It's an eight bolt flywheel (with the asymmetrical bolt pattern) that'll bolt right up and work with the later model gear reduction starter used throughout the sixties and for the next 30+ years, HOWEVER, with your extended bellhousing you're pretty much limited to the 146 tooth flywheel as the ONLY option and the only starters that'll work are the stock 6 volt starters up to '55, the '56 12 volt starter or a PowerMaster starter.

If you find a 172 tooth flywheel, sell it to someone with a 392 because it won't work with any starter you can find on that block.

McBar Machine made an adapter to install a FoMoCo trans on a '51-'53 hemi and Wilcap and Offenhauser made them to install a Chevy trans on the same year hemi. I run an Offy behind my '53 hemi.

Wilcap copied my Mcbar Machine adapter (I loaned it to them so that they could copy it) but I don't know if it ever hit the streets before Tony died and the business got sold.
 
#30 ·
DeSoto said:
I wound up having to tap the carb base heater chamber outlets and crank in a pair of 3/8"-16 bolts into the holes and re-bore the throttle ports. I bottomed the bolts and torgued them into the base of the threads before re-boring the ports.

At least 1/3 of the bolt was protruding (at an angle) into the throttle bore at the carb surface.

BTW, the "new" engine's balanced and ready to go together but we're just waiting on some camshaft issues that weren't adequately addressed by the folks at Crower on the last go-around. Miscommunication between management and the shop floor, I guess.
Glad to here you're almost up and running again. Nothing sucks more than an oil pump failure 1000 miles from home. :pain:

I finally finished the deuce ... check my site to see the pics.

Centerline
HotRodsAndHemis.com

“The only place you'll find a helping hand is at the end of your own wrist" - Joe "Dr. Olds" Mondello
 
#31 ·
"....If you had a '54-'’56 block and you wanted to use an adapter with a later model trans, you'd need the 130 tooth flywheel from a 426. It's an eight bolt flywheel (with the asymmetrical bolt pattern) that'll bolt right up and work with the later model gear reduction starter used throughout the sixties and for the next 30+ years, HOWEVER, with your extended bellhousing you're pretty much limited to the 146 tooth flywheel as the ONLY option and the only starters that'll work are the stock 6 volt starters up to '55, the '56 12 volt starter or a PowerMaster starter.

If you find a 172 tooth flywheel, sell it to someone with a 392 because it won't work with any starter you can find on that block......"

_________________________________________________________________

I thought I'd throw this out as a for what it's worth thing (although it doesn't really pertain to the extended bellhousing as mentioned because of the starter issue).

According to the Wildcap site

".....Also the 426 Hemi flywheel has the correct bolt pattern but does not register on the flywheel correctly and can't be used....."



From my own experience, don't overlook or throw away the Poly flywheels (1957-1961) if you happen to come across one. Yes they are six bolts not eight like the HEMIs but they do bolt up to the Hemi Crank and register correctly. It is possible to drill and add the additional 2 studs if desired or run as is with only 6 bolts. Keep in mind that Chrysler only used the 8 bolt crank on the HEMIs and 6 bolts on everything else to include the 440s. Personally I’m not bothered running with only 6 studs in a mild street application.

The flywheel is too large (diameter) to use with the late model bellhousing/adaptor, but any machine shop can turn them down for the 130 tooth ring gear. The last one I had done cost $30 to turn down and have the ring gear installed.
 
#32 ·
"....."When buying a used car, punch the buttons on the radio. If all the stations are rock and roll, there's a good chance the transmission is shot." - Larry Lujack......"


By the way Centerline, I like the quote. Brings back memories of WLS and US 30, Nickey Chevrolet and Mr Norms commercials. Yeah, I'm that old.
 
#33 · (Edited)
1957plymouthhemi said:
"....."When buying a used car, punch the buttons on the radio. If all the stations are rock and roll, there's a good chance the transmission is shot." - Larry Lujack......"


By the way Centerline, I like the quote. Brings back memories of WLS and US 30, Nickey Chevrolet and Mr Norms commercials. Yeah, I'm that old.
I remember Nickey Chevrolet. I bought a 66 Vette fastback from a "pre-owned" Caddy dealer in Ft. Lauderdale, Fl in '71. They said it was a 396 and it ran like crap. Cost me $1800. Took it home, switched two plug wires and it purred like a kitten. Took the numbers off the block and couldn't find any matches so called Nickey and had them look it up. Turned out to be one of the first '66 Vettes with the 425 hp. 427 produced. God, I wish I still had that car...



Centerline
HotRodsAndHemis.com

Top ten reasons racing is better then sex:

1)You're expected to burn rubber, 2) It's OK to be a spectator, 3) There is a pit crew to help you out, 4) The faster you are the better you are, 5) It can last for several hours, 6) It's acceptable to tailgate, 7) You're supposed to finish first, 8) Earplugs are OK to drown out noise, 9) You don't have to kiss the race car, and 10) You get a trophy when your done.
 
#34 · (Edited)
1957plymouthhemi said:
"....I'm wondering if I actually need to install the bypass....."

If at all possible I would. The bypass allows the water to circulate in the block until the thermostat opens and prevents localized hot spots from forming. If you elect not to at a minimum I would drill a couple of 1/8” holes in the thermostat.

".... My hemi still has the original fluid auto trans bolted up to it. Does it have a standard flywheel inside of it?...."

If it has a throwout arm on the bellhousing then it is a "fluid drive" (basically a standard clutch connected to a torque convertor) and should have a standard flywheel.
Good info about the hole in the thermostat. I will check on the throwout arm. I have the motor assy stashed away at my dad's house in CA. I filled it with Marvel Mystery Oil last year - 2 gallons.

DeSoto said:
You'll have to contend with cutting into the exhaust crossover passage if you open up a '54 intake to fit a Holley, AFB or Edlebrock and once you open it up, make sure you radius the base of your cut bores.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
Will do. I'm going to install cast iron plugs in the heads too. I wont need any carb heat if I go with EFI

DeSoto said:
I just noticed. Your manifold doesn't have the two holes for the carburetor heater chamber. Mine (off a '54 New Yorker) had a pair of holes that lead to a chamber under the carburetor. The base gasket had a chaber in it to route the exhaust gasses under the Stromberg 4bbl carb to heat the base plate. These holes were so close to the bores that opening them up to accept an R-3310 Holley cut into those two exhaust crossover bores.
My intake has the small holes like your's did

DeSoto said:
You need an eight bolt flywheel. Use a Chrysler/Dodge/DeSoto/Plymouth (flat, not dished) 146 tooth flywheel 1939-1956
DeSoto said:
Wilcap copied my Mcbar Machine adapter (I loaned it to them so that they could copy it) but I don't know if it ever hit the streets before Tony died and the business got sold.
My HH adapter is an exact dup of the original Offy adapter from the 60's
See page 42 on the PDF link below

Old Offy Catalog

Centerline said:
I remember Nickey Chevrolet. I bought a 66 Vette fastback from a "pre-owned" Caddy dealer in Ft. Lauderdale, Fl in '71. They said it was a 396 and it ran like crap. Cost me $1800. Took it home, switched two plug wires and it purred like a kitten. Took the numbers off the block and couldn't find any matches so called Nickey and had them look it up. Turned out to be one of the first '66 Vettes with the 425 hp. 427 produced. God, I wish I still had that car...

Nice Midyear BB, but Vette's are sooo boring....Here's my silver '70 :D
 

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#38 ·
Milt23T said:
I belong to a T Bucket club in North Texas and I am a member of the National T Bucket group and there are several T Buckets with the older hemi engine in them. Weigh a "bunch", but they are cool.
Ya, they're heavy, but I'm mostly concerned about bellhousing & clutch pedal clearance. I'm planning on using a hyd clutch pedal setup. The early blocks (like mine) have a long straight bellhousing

I'm really digging the exposed transmission on the cars below. I think that's how I want to do it.


 
#43 ·
Hot Heads 340 oil pump

The chrome moly shaft simply wore out in 37,000 miles and I had to replace the pump.

The new Hot Heads pump fell apart on the way home from Louisville this August and I lost the engine (3 rods through the freshly-chromed oil pan).

The stock pump, if the body isn't scored, will work fine. However, if the pump cavity is scored or, otherwise, worn, you'll never be able to reach the maximum factory oil pressure, even with a rebuild kit, as there'll be too much oil leaking around the gears due to the worn housing to even reach the relief valve setting.

FWIW, I ran my hemis (3 different blocks, same crank, rods, heads, cam, pistons) with 25 psi (hot) for well over 200,000 miles until I swapped in the Hot Heads oil pump. I was, finally, able to drive down the road with 55 psi (hot) but the "soft" shaft that Bob Walker puts into his Melling pumps isn't up to the task. It simply wears out. .....but his wife INSISTS that they've "....never had any issues with these pumps and sell one or more pumps every day"
 
#45 ·
Install a PCV system

Sludge under the valve covers results when condensation forms on the inside of the valve covers. The stock Chrysler draft tube arrangement never removed any moisture from the valve covers at all. Since the water vapor insde your crank case rises to the highest point before condensing, installing breathers on the valve covers is a given if you want to prevent sludge from forming in the top of the engine.

I've run a PCV system for years. I plugged the oil filler tube with a rag (there's a pair of bavvles near the bottom that prevent the rag from falling onto the timing chain) I installed a bung in my O'Brien Truckers finned vally cover for a hose leading to a PCV valve and I installed a pair of Offenhauser breathers (a birthday gift from Dennis O'Brien at O'Brien Truckers) on the front of his finned valve covers.

Fresh air enters the front of the valve covers via thye breathers and is pulled down the pushrod holes int the valley and, eventually, out through the bung at the back.

Prior to Installing Dennis's finned aluminum accessories in '93, I ran a set of Donovan valve covers and the PCV valve was connected via an elbow in the bottom of the draft tube (took out the 1/8" pipe plug). The bottom of the draft tube itself was plugged with a expandable core plug (rubber, expandable "freeze"plug") to create an enclosed system.

I've never, in 257,000 miles, had any deposits forming on the bottom of the valve covers.
 
#46 ·
If I installed a breather in each valve cover, should I use a sealed oil filler cap instead of the original vented cap/breather arrangement? That way, the fresh air would only come through the valve covers.

I would also install the HH PCV kit into the original valley cover
 
#47 · (Edited)
If you install the HH PVC setup you shouldn't "need" breathers in the valve covers, however as Skip says the wouldn't hurt. The whole idea would be to duplicate a modern PVC system yes, I believe you would want a sealed oil filler cap. Adding breathers to the hemi in my 32 is one of the things I intend to do when I get time. Good angled ones are a tad pricy so I'll wait till I have the extra cash. I did use a standard style PVC system on the 331 I put in my truck along with breathers.





Centerline
HotRodsAndHemis.com

Never pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just shoot you. - Anonymous
 
#49 ·
Maybe I missed it but here I am on page 4 and have yet to see a T-Bucket with a Hemi? :D

So, to scratch the itch, I surfed and found these.....

Here is one, added the blower 'cause the hemi didn't have enough HP :mwink::


And a T Roadster:


And a blurry coupe with a bizzarro front shock set-up:
 
#50 ·
Two ways to do the PVC thing

There's the HH setup with a breather in one cover and a bung in the other. Very effective but not very nostalgic looking.

The other way is to put nostalgic breathers on the valve covers and install the PCV valve (via a short hose) into the rear of the valley cover or into a bung in the oil filler tube. In both cases of this method, the open end of the breather tube MUST be plugged/capped off in order to force the inlet air to go through the two breathers.

One thing you need to consider doing when you use the valley cover PCV location is to incorporate some sort of a baffle to prevent the pCV valve from sucking oil out of the engine. I simply sectioned the bottom half of the stock valley cover pieces and put it right back on the engine under the O'Brien Truckers valley cover.
 

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#51 ·
lakeroadster said:
Maybe I missed it but here I am on page 4 and have yet to see a T-Bucket with a Hemi? :D

And a T Roadster:
This is exactly what I'm thinking about - thanks John :D I wonder what he's using for a tranny.

I also found a few supercharged t bucket hemi pics. Way too much power. You would need to be very cautious on any throttle input - especially on a corner. That would be like driving on ice ALL the time.
 
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