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Old 12-13-2011, 07:11 AM
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Anyone Familare with 351W Boat Motors??

I have a 351W that was taken out of an "83" I/O boat. From the pictures I have been told that it is definatley a 351W. I was also told to speak with someone who is knowledgable with these motors that where istalled in boats, because they did use different internal parts compared to the same motors installed in the cars. What was different about these motors? Are these designed more for high torque at a lower RPM?

This motor is going in a Jeep that my son and I are working on. It has a pretty nice lift in it and the motor will be pushing fairly large 38" tires, so I am looking for much more low end torque and mot so much on the high RPM. Anything that you could tell me about this would help. I want to start working on the motor after the new year, but I do not want to start repalcing parts until I know what it is I have. Thanks for the help.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:18 AM
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they have a cam that is happier up top. 4,500 or so. you'll want to swap that, flush block' coolant passages. hopefully it hasn't been run in salt water. Most Fords were used in OMC drives and Volvo Penta's, and I know most OMC drives were freshwater cooling. Not sure of the Volvo system but they may use a closed cooling system. A small amount of mercruisers also used 302/351 engines.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:47 AM
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ignition .

The ones i have seen had a different distributor than cars, It looks like your dist does not have a vacuum advance. you will probably want to use a car-truck dist . and the camshaft in 351. has a different firing order than 302's except 5.0 HO, they used the marine Cam and firing order, 351 firing order puts less stress on the crank than engines that had 7 & 8 firing next to each other. You can run a 302 cam ,, just have to have the spark plug wires in the correct order to match the cam.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:01 AM
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Some boat engines run "backwards", sorry I don't know which ones though. The cam, intake, and carb will be different because the engine is always under load and run WOT most of the time.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:02 AM
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twin screw boats have 1 reverse rotation engine and 1 std rotation engine. Single screw boats have 1 standard rotation engine
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:30 AM
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I was told that the stock cam's torque range should be around 1800 to 4500 RPM because of the high load that it see's out of the gate. You are thinking that the torque range for the stock cam should start much higher? Once I get the cam out and in my hands how do I know exactly what it is that I am looking at? I want to make sure that it has the most torque at the lower RPM range.
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:41 AM
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The engine has "Mastercraft" on the valve cover. Mastercrafts in that era were direct drive boats, left hand propeller, the engine probably turns clockwise, when viewed from the front. Are you sure the engine was in an Inboard/Outboard boat?
Hook a battery up to the starter, that came with the engine, to confirm.
A common horsepower rating for 351 engines, in boats around this vintage is about 260 HP.

Boat engines usually do not need vacuum advance, because they only have one "gear", and if the boat is propped correctly, the advance curve needed pretty much follows the engine RPM.

Most marine engine companies are pretty much proprietary (closed lipped) about camshaft specs. You may just want to get a dial indicator, and a degree wheel, and measure it your self. At that point, in might be easier just to dial the other 15 or 14 lobes, and check the camshaft, or pull the camshaft out of the block and check it the conventional way.
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
twin screw boats have 1 reverse rotation engine and 1 std rotation engine. Single screw boats have 1 standard rotation engine
Not since about 1980. The outdrive or transmission on a twin handles the reversing of the propshaft.

There is surprisingly little different from most marine engines and car engines. Cam specs will look very normal to stock street engines. Way back you used to run 20w50 in marine engines because the bearing tolerances were opened up. This has all but disappeared since the early 80s because of improved metalurgy. It used to be that old-school forgings would swell a lot when hot and therefore they needed the additional clearance for the high-load marine engines. These days with better castings, that need is eliminated. The Vortec 350 in my boat uses 062 heads, 810 block, standard bearings, hypereutectic pistons, cast crank... all directly from a street engine.

There were two ways of making an engine reverse rotation. One was to regrind the cam "backwards." They used a traditional timing chain, but the cam was ground in the opposite way. The other way was to use a big timing gear on the cam and a big gear on the crank so that they directly meshed and spun the cam the opposite direction. So... if you pull the timing cover and see two big gears, its reverse. If you pull it and see a chain, it could be either. At that point, you need to turn the crank snout forward while watching the rockers. If the exhaust opens then the intake, its a regular rotation. If its the other way around, well... its reverse rotation.

But... the easiest way to tell if a Windsor is forward or reverse is where the starter is. If the starter is mounted to the engine in the normal fashion (attached to the bellhousing tucked beside the engine block) is normal rotation. If the starter is mounted 180 degrees (poking out of the back of the bellhousing) its reverse rotation. The same starter motors were used on both, its just that one mounts backwards to spin the motor backwards. If you don't have a starter or bellhousing, see above cam gear description.

Two things very important to note... A) I've personally never seen a reverse rotation windsor after about 1978, but I haven't seen all manufacturers and all boats. And B) 95% of boating stuff refers to standard rotation as CCW (counterclockwise) and reverse rotation as CW (clockwise). Marine terms always look at the flywheel, not the pulleys as their reference. A standard rotation windsor has clockwise pulleys, but its called a CCW engine.
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielC
The engine has "Mastercraft" on the valve cover. Mastercrafts in that era were direct drive boats, left hand propeller, the engine probably turns clockwise, when viewed from the front. Are you sure the engine was in an Inboard/Outboard boat?
I caught that as well, however doesn't it look like that intake has an EGR block off? This thing might be a mix of parts. Blue was also not a MasterCraft color, but I guess anyone could have rattle-canned it.

I also noticed a lack of a lake pump. In that picture of the crank snout, just off to the left of the photo (starboard side) there would have been a lake pump if it were an inboard MasterCraft.
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:03 AM
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The engine was originaly black. Someone did use a spray can on it, because when I cleaned it up about half of the blue paint came off with it. The starter is in the normal location, so unless it has timing gears it should be a normal rotation engine. I am still second guessing if I am actually looking at a 351W or a 302. From the pictures I have seen of the two engines blocks side by side, the 351 block seems to rise taller and where the head bolts down the surface is much more parallel to the floor. The 302 seems to be shorter and the head surface is almost a 45 deg angle. Kind of what this engine looks like. Everything that I read also tells me that the valve covers on a 351W have 5 bolts, but this one has 6? I have a few more pics that might help.

Also I poped open the valve covers to see if there is any markings on the heads and I noticed that I have pretty hard crusty rust and crud built up on the push rods. This is only on the front two cylinders #1 and #5. What do you think the possibilities are?

Thanks for the help.
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:08 AM
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I am most familiar with the 351W engine used in Ski Nautiques, I used to work at a Correct Craft boat dealer. I only saw a few Mastercraft boats come through the service department.
The marine engines are manufactured by Ford, or GM, and then went to an intermediate company for conversion to marine use. If you go back to the engine manufacturer, the engines are actually closer to the industrial engines car companies make.
Correct Craft uses PCM (PleasureCraft Marine) to convert engines to marine use.
Mastercraft uses Indmar to convert to marine use. These two companies have the majority of the marine conversion market, for inboard boats, Direct, and V-drive.
Mercury does its own conversion to marine use, as does OMC, and Volvo-Penta.

I do not recall ever seeing a 351 with the raw water pump on the front of the crankshaft pulley. Most I have seen have the raw water pump in front of the starter, tucked under the front of the engine. The raw water pump mount is designed so that the pump can be mounted with either end up, and mounting the pump upside down, accommodates the pump to an engine that rotates counterclockwise, viewed from the front of the engine.

In my posts about the rotation of an engine, I am referring to the engine, irrespective of where the engine is in the boat. What I call the front of the engine, in a V-drive boat, is actually the end of the engine that is closest to the transom of the boat. The front of the engine has the accessory drives on it. The flywheel, and transmission is on the other end of the engine.

I do not know of any marine engines that use EGR, but that may have changed recently. New ski and wakeboard boats are now coming equipped with catalytic converters, and with the addition of the catalyst, just recently have started to run O2 sensors.
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:12 AM
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Also I forgot to mention that everything that I have read said that the 351W used the larger standard size spark plugs, but the plugs in this engine are the smaller plugs that you would use a 5/8 socket to remove. Just remembered this.
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:16 AM
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My fuel injected 351W, in my 1997 Ski Nautique, uses the smaller plugs.
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:18 AM
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What is the easiest and best way to determine exactly what engine that I have sitting on the stand?
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Old 12-14-2011, 09:25 AM
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OK, I may have more problems with this motor than I thought I might have. Up till now I have done nothing to the motor, so I figured I would drain the oil and drop the pan to get a better look inside and see if that can help determine what I am looking at. Well, I got 2 gallons of crystal clear water and the rest was oily/water sludge.

So the question now is how would the water be getting into the engine? When I drained the cooling systen it had dark green antifreeze and was full to the top. So the one thing I do know is that it did not come from the inside of the block, the heads or the cooling system. Any ideas? Could this be a cracked block?
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