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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 10:06 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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a quick 20 second youtube search brought up this:

637whp on MS1.

You'd be surprised what a google search can bring up too.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 11:08 AM
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Uh... 637hp turbo meth injected. Thats your example. Thats like a visa commercial.

2500 big turbo.
2000 edelbrock efi manifold
4000 engine/rebuild
another 10 K worth of crap bolted on for no reason.

Getting your *** handed to you buy a saturn with nos = priceless...

Makes the same hp as a stock corvette with the same type of engine.

If I built a meth injected turbo ls motor it would dam sure make more than 600 h-puppies. Thats just sad. someone tell that poor bastard to turn up the boost. But... He cant cause he's running a megasquirt that cant get the right amount of fuel at high rpm.

I could run any ecu with an fmu and make that kind of power off pump gas with a big turbo at hand. Hell i could probably make your tractor engine make some power with all that crap he had bolted to it.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 11:20 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
Uh... 637hp turbo meth injected. Thats your example. Thats like a visa commercial.

2500 big turbo.
2000 edelbrock efi manifold
4000 engine/rebuild
another 10 K worth of crap bolted on for no reason.

Getting your *** handed to you buy a saturn with nos = priceless...

Makes the same hp as a stock corvette with the same type of engine.

If I built a meth injected turbo ls motor it would dam sure make more than 600 h-puppies. Thats just sad. someone tell that poor bastard to turn up the boost. But... He cant cause he's running a megasquirt that cant get the right amount of fuel at high rpm.

I could run any ecu with an fmu and make that kind of power off pump gas with a big turbo at hand. Hell i could probably make your tractor engine make some power with all that crap he had bolted to it.
obviously you have no clue wtf you're talking about. Probably just trolling around.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
obviously you have no clue wtf you're talking about. Probably just trolling around.
Like i said in the o/p I alreayd have a turbo test bed car. I am looking for n/a setup.

Maybe try another google search typical blown meth setups are in the 1500 to 2500 hp range. An LS motor can make 600+ hp with a turbo on pump gas. Check it out if you dont think i am in the know.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
Uh... 637hp turbo meth injected. Thats your example. Thats like a visa commercial.

2500 big turbo.
2000 edelbrock efi manifold
4000 engine/rebuild
another 10 K worth of crap bolted on for no reason.

Getting your *** handed to you buy a saturn with nos = priceless...

Makes the same hp as a stock corvette with the same type of engine.

If I built a meth injected turbo ls motor it would dam sure make more than 600 h-puppies. Thats just sad. someone tell that poor bastard to turn up the boost. But... He cant cause he's running a megasquirt that cant get the right amount of fuel at high rpm.

I could run any ecu with an fmu and make that kind of power off pump gas with a big turbo at hand. Hell i could probably make your tractor engine make some power with all that crap he had bolted to it.
Dogging other peoples stuff is very uncool.
That truck is making about 750fwhp which is pretty respectable for a streetable ride. I'm just guessing but the methanol injection is probably just for detonation prevention.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 01:06 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Originally Posted by lmsport View Post
Dogging other peoples stuff is very uncool.
That truck is making about 750fwhp which is pretty respectable for a streetable ride. I'm just guessing but the methanol injection is probably just for detonation prevention.
stock shortblock too. and yes, if you look closely its just water/methanol injection.

The whole point of the video was to show that plenty of power can be made with megasquirt (even the older units), not to critique someone else's 700hp engine.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
stock shortblock too. and yes, if you look closely its just water/methanol injection.

The whole point of the video was to show that plenty of power can be made with megasquirt (even the older units), not to critique someone else's 700hp engine.
Possilby true but it does not relate to this post. I said no FI setups. You dont even need ms at all to run that setup. Looks to me like the ms is just for the meth injection. He has edelbrock setup for fuel air.

My test motor is over 500 hp already. No turobs needed. I would love to take your advice but it does not relate in any way to my needs.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
MS1 has been used in many engines over 500hp. And it is the slowest of the bunch. The calculations are the same for 15hp or for 150hp per cylinder, the power is irrelevant.
really, the time at 1000rpm and the time at 7500rpm are not anywhere near the same
You can run 4 sequential channels on a MS2 system, meaning your sbc will have "semi-sequential" injection if you're running 8 injectors (2 injectors per channel). It comes down to the number of channels, you can have 4 on a MS2, 8 on a MS3.[
as seen as we are talking about a v8.. that means the MSII doesn't do sequential injection.. it has BATCH..
and because it can't do 8 seperate sets of caculations to do sequential injection on the v8 ir a v6 or v10 or a v12.. then it's not FAST enough, the ecu BRAIN isn't powerfull enough..
"semi senquential" isn't senquential unless oyu have a 4 cyl .. when was the last time you saw a 4cyl vette?
and this is why I haven't bought a ms system yet, to many LIE about what it can or can't do..
semi sequenial.. isn't sequential..and never will be.. the reason it doesn't have the "resalution, is the ecu CAN't handle the caculations needed"
it's like dial up and highspeed internet..
AGAIN speed and power HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT>>

Last edited by E.Furgal; 10-17-2012 at 03:31 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmsport View Post
Dogging other peoples stuff is very uncool.
That truck is making about 750fwhp which is pretty respectable for a streetable ride. I'm just guessing but the methanol injection is probably just for detonation prevention.
Agreed! Its a cool truck. And yes meth injection is probably setup with ms on boost to stop det. I think he said it was high compression. Edelbrock for fuel air i think cant tell from vid.

Seems like everytime you mention something on a internet post there is always someone that has to tell you about turbos. I have had so many turbo cars i am bored with it. I dont want smooth i want violent power. Touch the gas and the car should lung forward. That is why i was specific about no force induction (fi) in my post.
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Old 10-17-2012, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by E.Furgal View Post
as seen as we are talking about a v8.. that means the MSII doesn't do sequential injection.. it has BATCH..
and because it can't do 8 seperate sets of caculations to do sequential injection on the v8 ir a v6 or v10 or a v12.. then it's not FAST enough, the ecu BRAIN isn't powerfull enough..
"semi senquential" isn't senquential unless oyu have a 4 cyl .. when was the last time you saw a 4cyl vette?
and this is why I haven't bought a ms system yet, to many LIE about what it can or can't do..
semi sequenial.. isn't sequential..and never will be.. the reason it doesn't have the "resalution, is the ecu CAN't handle the caculations needed"
it's like dial up and highspeed internet..
AGAIN speed and power HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT>>
Thanks for explaining this to him. Not sure he will ever understand. If it turns 7k rpm then its got to adjust every few revolutions at 700 rpm its about 300 times a second at 7500 it will need to adjust over 3000 times per second. Yes with A turbo i could flood the engine with fuel and make some power. Without any adjustments but its not going to max out. It will run rich and not make its max power. Lean is mean.

With normally asperated engines you cant run them lean or rich and make max power. Its got to be almost dead on the numbers or it will not hit like it could.

Looks like ms3 is the way to go. Unless I find another solution. It looks like the best thing going for cheap. Ms1 is just to slow and ms2 is ms one with updated chip. I would still feel better to find some people running na setup. I have found thru the years that if it works some hotrodder will have one on his car.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 04:41 PM
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SAME REASON PEOPLE ARE NOT STILL USING A 386 computer...
the chips are not fast enough..

batch fires all 8 at the same time.. so the caculations are 8 times less than senquential
bank fires in sets of(in the v8 case) sets of 4
and the caculations are 6 times less than senquential..
senquential fires the injectors and times the engine as 8 single cyl engines..
it takes 8 times the speed and power the ecu that controls my tbi on my fiero does.. or any batch system ..

ya I could run windows xp on my old 133 computer if I wanted to start booting it up a day before I use it.. but the power and speeds not there..

I plan on a dual stage nos system.. I can't have it somewhat close. it has to be spot on.. a little lean and toast..
efi is a computer.. cpu speed and power is EVERYTHING.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:11 PM
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i use an ms1 with msextra code for the larger fuel and ignition tables and the engine turns 8,500 and runs perfect.

on my camaro i use a megasquirt 2 with ms2 extra code and see no real difference except the ms2 extra has slightly larger fuel/ign tables

if u want resolution with the ms1 use the ms11 extra code and use table switching based on map sensor value this gives u 2x the resolution


cheapest way to get an ms2 setup is to buy a used ms1 v3.0 and then buy the ms2 cpu which plugs right in

or u can take the ms1 v3.0 or 3.57 and buy the ms3 cpu and that also plugs right in with only a few jumper changes needed

btw the ms cpus are faster then the popular 7730 749 and other gm ecm's alot of ppl use, ms2 and above is faster then the latest and greatest lsx ecms that everyone loves and some of those power 1,500-2,000 hp engines
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:16 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Furgal View Post
SAME REASON PEOPLE ARE NOT STILL USING A 386 computer...
the chips are not fast enough..

batch fires all 8 at the same time.. so the caculations are 8 times less than senquential
bank fires in sets of(in the v8 case) sets of 4
and the caculations are 6 times less than senquential..
senquential fires the injectors and times the engine as 8 single cyl engines..
it takes 8 times the speed and power the ecu that controls my tbi on my fiero does.. or any batch system ..

ya I could run windows xp on my old 133 computer if I wanted to start booting it up a day before I use it.. but the power and speeds not there..

I plan on a dual stage nos system.. I can't have it somewhat close. it has to be spot on.. a little lean and toast..
efi is a computer.. cpu speed and power is EVERYTHING.
So I take it neither of you have any experience with EFI? Any one who's worked with both carbs and EFI knows you're full of bull. A Bosh Jetronic system can be used for an engine making 500hp with no problems as long as it's tuned right- and that's from the early 70's!

As far as violent power, that has nothing to do with turbo or NA, you can have smooth power or power that comes on like a light switch with either system. Work with a few enignes and this quickly becomes quite apparent.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:17 PM
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and and fmu based setup will not make near the power of the same setup with a megasquirt i know ive been there and done that.

my turbo camaro with an fmu took 2x the amount of boost to make the same power that it did with the megasquirt 1 no fmu and half the boost.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:18 PM
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i use an ms1 with msextra code for the larger fuel and ignition tables and the engine turns 8,500 and runs perfect.

on my camaro i use a megasquirt 2 with ms2 extra code and see no real difference except the ms2 extra has slightly larger fuel/ign tables

if u want resolution with the ms1 use the ms11 extra code and use table switching based on map sensor value this gives u 2x the resolution


cheapest way to get an ms2 setup is to buy a used ms1 v3.0 and then buy the ms2 cpu which plugs right in

or u can take the ms1 v3.0 or 3.57 and buy the ms3 cpu and that also plugs right in with only a few jumper changes needed
yes, but one of the reasons for the ls family of engines power is it's senquential efi..
not sure as I've not read enough.. but is the msIII that isn't kit form not based off the 3.57 board.. I think the whole chip set is different.. the msII/III on the updated msI board still has the older bus bit limits
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