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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:18 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Originally Posted by Project89 View Post
i use an ms1 with msextra code for the larger fuel and ignition tables and the engine turns 8,500 and runs perfect.

on my camaro i use a megasquirt 2 with ms2 extra code and see no real difference except the ms2 extra has slightly larger fuel/ign tables

if u want resolution with the ms1 use the ms11 extra code and use table switching based on map sensor value this gives u 2x the resolution


cheapest way to get an ms2 setup is to buy a used ms1 v3.0 and then buy the ms2 cpu which plugs right in

or u can take the ms1 v3.0 or 3.57 and buy the ms3 cpu and that also plugs right in with only a few jumper changes needed

btw the ms cpus are faster then the popular 7730 749 and other gm ecm's alot of ppl use, ms2 and above is faster then the latest and greatest lsx ecms that everyone loves and some of those power 1,500-2,000 hp engines
They don't get it. For some reason they KNOW that their project is super special and unlike anything else ever before and needs a $10,000 EFI controller system.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:25 PM
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They don't get it. For some reason they KNOW that their project is super special and unlike anything else ever before and needs a $10,000 EFI controller system.
yeah i know, and if u want to know the real reason ms2 dosent do full sequential ???

its because they saved it for ms3 and due to liscencing none of the ms3 features may be backported to earlier ms units, even though they are capable.

if ms3 never came out the ms2 would have had full sequentioal injection


there are ppl with full sequential ms2's but they are not supported code versions and never will be, these were written by the end user, and are not allowed to be shared on the ms forums or sites due to the liscencing
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:31 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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yeah i know, and if u want to know the real reason ms2 dosent do full sequential ???

its because they saved it for ms3 and due to liscencing none of the ms3 features may be backported to earlier ms units, even though they are capable.

if ms3 never came out the ms2 would have had full sequentioal injection


there are ppl with full sequential ms2's but they are not supported code versions and never will be, these were written by the end user, and are not allowed to be shared on the ms forums or sites due to the liscencing
Then we can discuss the difference between semisequential and full sequential on your typical 500hp sbc. Cause there's a HUGE WORLD of difference right?
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by E.Furgal View Post
yes, but one of the reasons for the ls family of engines power is it's senquential efi..
not sure as I've not read enough.. but is the msIII that isn't kit form not based off the 3.57 board.. I think the whole chip set is different.. the msII/III on the updated msI board still has the older bus bit limits
no u can put the ms3 on the v2.2 boards if u want but its not regularly done, the reason its not is because the holes needed for the board standoffs for mounting are not on the v2.2 board, u can carfully drill the holes urself but its not recomended.ppl have done it and the unit will function exactly as it does on 3.0 or better board

the 3.0/3.57 boards are the same witht he exception of the 3.57 being all surface mount stuff and not prototype area.

i prefer the 3.0 board as its easily repired if u happen to mis wire something or burn up a resitor or want to ad din ur own circuts, something not easily done with the 3.57
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:35 PM
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Then we can discuss the difference between semisequential and full sequential on your typical 500hp sbc. Cause there's a HUGE WORLD of difference right?

what most ppl dont relize is that even most new factory ecms are sequential the majority of them revert to bach/bank fire above 3k rpms, because there was no real difference in power or fuel econemy once the rpms came up

biggest reason i see for sequential is to help with presure droping in the fuel rail , instea dof having 4 90# an hour injectors opening at once u have one opening this allows the fuel pump to keep the presure in the rail more stable
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:39 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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what most ppl dont relize is that even most new factory ecms are sequential the majority of them revert to bach/bank fire above 3k rpms, because there was no real difference in power or fuel econemy once the rpms came up
From what I've seen you won't see much of a difference past 1,000 RPM. It helps idle quality a hair, but people were making huge power long before sequential injection came about.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:57 PM
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They don't get it. For some reason they KNOW that their project is super special and unlike anything else ever before and needs a $10,000 EFI controller system.
since when has a msIII become a 10000.oo ecu?

then you have the "end user made his own code...."
to a msII thats great for those that have been doing this for a good long while..
I'd not tell a new carb tuner to start drilling air bleeds..
isn't the 70's bosch injection mechanical?
you proved my point.. why I haven't made the jump..
questions on the msII or msIII change somehow to thinking I need a 10000.oo ecu..
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:05 PM
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Ford went seq. In 87 the next year after chevy did it. They never looked back. Only inline four bangers can run batch and not get bad mpg. All cars built today only fire right before the intake valve opens. They would not make emissions standards.

Nobody is wasting gas these days. Gas puddled behind the valve is not good either.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:07 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Originally Posted by E.Furgal View Post
since when has a msIII become a 10000.oo ecu?

then you have the "end user made his own code...."
to a msII thats great for those that have been doing this for a good long while..
I'd not tell a new carb tuner to start drilling air bleeds..
isn't the 70's bosch injection mechanical?
you proved my point.. why I haven't made the jump..
questions on the msII or msIII change somehow to thinking I need a 10000.oo ecu..
Jetronic has mechanical aspects, but its EFI. MS1, MS2, or MS3 will all work for your application. A 500hp sbc is nothing extraordinary to ask from any of the systems.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Project89 View Post
what most ppl dont relize is that even most new factory ecms are sequential the majority of them revert to bach/bank fire above 3k rpms, because there was no real difference in power or fuel econemy once the rpms came up

biggest reason i see for sequential is to help with presure droping in the fuel rail , instea dof having 4 90# an hour injectors opening at once u have one opening this allows the fuel pump to keep the presure in the rail more stable
Your math is correct. Now apply it to mpg and tell me how you can loose pressure in the fuel rail blowing fuel out in batch fire and it not effect the mpg.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:32 PM
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Jetronic has mechanical aspects, but its EFI. MS1, MS2, or MS3 will all work for your application. A 500hp sbc is nothing extraordinary to ask from any of the systems.
Ok jettronic is mechanical. Not efi. Jettronic does not have electrical injectors. They are mechanical. I had jetronic on my 86 928. You would be hard pressed to find nos parts to make a jetronic make 500 hp. They will not do it stock. Not even close. It was also seq. Not batch.

I have modded tables in ford chevy and honda ecus. Both for boost and na. Boost is always easy its very forgiving just got to make sure its rich. I have no doubt ms can handle that aspect of the build.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:36 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Ok jettronic is mechanical. Not efi. Jettronic does not have electrical injectors. They are mechanical. I had jetronic on my 86 928. You would be hard pressed to find nos parts to make a jetronic make 500 hp. They will not do it stock. Not even close. It was also seq. Not batch.

I have modded tables in ford chevy and honda ecus. Both for boost and na. Boost is always easy its very forgiving just got to make sure its rich. I have no doubt ms can handle that aspect of the build.
Jetronic is most certainly EFI, and it is NOT sequential, It has electronic low impedance injectors, and yes you will have to modify the parts to make 500hp.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:55 PM
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Jetronic is most certainly EFI, and it is NOT sequential, It has electronic low impedance injectors, and yes you will have to modify the parts to make 500hp.
You might want to wiki that one real quick.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:12 PM
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You might want to wiki that one real quick.
I don't need to, I had a Jetronic system on my L28 before I switched to MS1, still running the original injectors and coolant sensor. Furthermore I own one of the "how to tune Bosch Jetronic" books no longer in print.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
Jetronic has mechanical aspects, but its EFI. MS1, MS2, or MS3 will all work for your application. A 500hp sbc is nothing extraordinary to ask from any of the systems.
well, as seen as my engine is a 496 bbc.. that others with same intake/heads/compression/cam are in the 880hp 630+ft lb..
a set up for 500hp might just work as well as a 390 cfm carb
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