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-   -   Anyone see anything wrong/missing with the products I found? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/anyone-see-anything-wrong-missing-products-i-found-226938.html)

BuickLeSabre1960 12-07-2012 09:43 PM

Anyone see anything wrong/missing with the products I found?
 
I am in the somewhat early research phase of painting my car and I've been looking through the PPG catalog and have somewhat put some products together for what I will need. I am having to replace some panels on the car as well as take off one flaking single stage repaint probably done in the 80's as well as the factory color. The final color will be red which is why I have the red epoxy primer.

Here is what I have put together, this is all in the PPG Deltron line:
DF700 TECHNIFILL Plus Body Filler

DP74LF Epoxy Primer
DP401LF or DP402LF Catalyst?



DZ3 Light Gray
DTV801 Fast Evaporating Thinner


DP74LF Epoxy Primer as sealer

DBC basecoat

DC4000 Clear


Does this seem like a good starting point to start researching more in depth on these individual products or do I need to move some stuff around?

Thanks, GM

OneMoreTime 12-07-2012 10:57 PM

I can tell you what I use is Southern polyurethane epoxy primer and Marson Platinum filler..I have found those products are easy to use..Just Da sand to metal with 80 grit and prime 2 wet coats and you are good to go with your base clear..or whatever you choose for the finish..If you want a great job strip to bare metal..

Sam

69 widetrack 12-08-2012 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickLeSabre1960 (Post 1620338)
I am in the somewhat early research phase of painting my car and I've been looking through the PPG catalog and have somewhat put some products together for what I will need. I am having to replace some panels on the car as well as take off one flaking single stage repaint probably done in the 80's as well as the factory color. The final color will be red which is why I have the red epoxy primer.

Here is what I have put together, this is all in the PPG Deltron line:
DF700 TECHNIFILL Plus Body Filler

DP74LF Epoxy Primer
DP401LF or DP402LF Catalyst?



DZ3 Light Gray
DTV801 Fast Evaporating Thinner


DP74LF Epoxy Primer as sealer

DBC basecoat

DC4000 Clear


Does this seem like a good starting point to start researching more in depth on these individual products or do I need to move some stuff around?

Thanks, GM

Have you bought these products or are they on your wish list? If you have not purchased them then I will make a few suggestions.

Filler, there is nothing wrong with the filler you have chosen, it does the job. A filler that is easier to work with is Fiberglass Evercoat rage and or Rage Gold. This is a premium light weight filler that allows excellent working time, long durability and easy to sand. I have been a PPG Rep and I feel that Rage is a better product.

First, what you need to do is strip the vehicle of paint, use either a DA (Dual Action) sander with 80 grit or a chemical stripper like Marhyde's Aircraft strpper. If you use a DA and 80 grit, set your orbital in a rotary mode, not the vibrating mode...don't stay in one spot to long, keep the sander moving so you don't build up heat and warp the panel. Also keep your paper sharp, don't let it get dull, dull paper will cause heat and warp the panel as well. If you use chemical stripper, be prepared for a bad smell and a mess all around. They both work, they both effective... on large panels like hoods, roofs and deck lids I prefer going the chemical route. Even an experienced person can have trouble with warping a large panel when using a DA. If you use a chemical stripper, it may take several coats to remove the paint. Follow the manufacturer's recommendations as far as time required for the stripper to work. When the majority of paint is removed, clean the surface with thinner, or an appropriate solvent, the remaining paint can then be removed with a DA.

After the vehicle is totally stripped, do what ever body work you need to do, replace panels, repair dents etc.

The Epoxy Primer, hardner and reducer are fine. The only problem with PPG's DP line of epoxy primer is that it does not sand well at all. Newer technologies of epoxy primer give you the build required, sand well and still afford you the rust protection you need. One product that I personally have not used, but have talked to people that have and they swear by the product is SPI epoxy, other companies make similar well sanding epoxies.

Depending on the epoxy primer you use, if your using PPG's DP line it should be top coated with a 2K high build primer, I'm from Canada and we do not use the regular 2K primer that PPG has to offer in the US. (We have laws that require that we meet VOC legislation and we are not allowed to purchase all of any manufacturer's offerings that don't meet these requirements), use any quality 2K primer.

When in final primer, (this will take more than 1 prime session) block your vehicle with either a minimum of 400 grit dry or 600 grit wet sand paper until all panels are straight (you will have burn through's, body work repairs etc. and need to re prime several times before you are ready for paint).

I never use sealer...it is not required if your prep on the body of the vehicle has been done properly...I repeat, I never use sealer.

The DBC line is a quality base coat and do not have an issue with it at all. The clear coat DC 4000 is a respectable clear...I would prefer the Concept 2021 clear...In my opinion it has a deeper gloss, easier to apply, great hold out and tough as nails. The only draw back is that if you are color sanding and polishing your car, you need to complete this task with 4 weeks of painting...if a longer period of time is left between color sanding and polishing, it can be a touch more difficult to bring the gloss to your expectations.

There is much more involved in getting a vehicle ready for paint than discussed in my response to your questions about products. What I have given you are my opinions, if you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I will help in any way I can.

Hope this helps.
Ray

BuickLeSabre1960 12-08-2012 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneMoreTime (Post 1620349)
I can tell you what I use is Southern polyurethane epoxy primer and Marson Platinum filler..I have found those products are easy to use..Just Da sand to metal with 80 grit and prime 2 wet coats and you are good to go with your base clear..or whatever you choose for the finish..If you want a great job strip to bare metal..

Sam

definitely stripping it to bare metal, and i'll check into those products, Thanks






Quote:

Originally Posted by 69 widetrack (Post 1620357)
Have you bought these products or are they on your wish list? If you have not purchased them then I will make a few suggestions.

Filler, there is nothing wrong with the filler you have chosen, it does the job. A filler that is easier to work with is Fiberglass Evercoat rage and or Rage Gold. This is a premium light weight filler that allows excellent working time, long durability and easy to sand. I have been a PPG Rep and I feel that Rage is a better product.

First, what you need to do is strip the vehicle of paint, use either a DA (Dual Action) sander with 80 grit or a chemical stripper like Marhyde's Aircraft strpper. If you use a DA and 80 grit, set your orbital in a rotary mode, not the vibrating mode...don't stay in one spot to long, keep the sander moving so you don't build up heat and warp the panel. Also keep your paper sharp, don't let it get dull, dull paper will cause heat and warp the panel as well. If you use chemical stripper, be prepared for a bad smell and a mess all around. They both work, they both effective... on large panels like hoods, roofs and deck lids I prefer going the chemical route. Even an experienced person can have trouble with warping a large panel when using a DA. If you use a chemical stripper, it may take several coats to remove the paint. Follow the manufacturer's recommendations as far as time required for the stripper to work. When the majority of paint is removed, clean the surface with thinner, or an appropriate solvent, the remaining paint can then be removed with a DA.

After the vehicle is totally stripped, do what ever body work you need to do, replace panels, repair dents etc.

The Epoxy Primer, hardner and reducer are fine. The only problem with PPG's DP line of epoxy primer is that it does not sand well at all. Newer technologies of epoxy primer give you the build required, sand well and still afford you the rust protection you need. One product that I personally have not used, but have talked to people that have and they swear by the product is SPI epoxy, other companies make similar well sanding epoxies.

Depending on the epoxy primer you use, if your using PPG's DP line it should be top coated with a 2K high build primer, I'm from Canada and we do not use the regular 2K primer that PPG has to offer in the US. (We have laws that require that we meet VOC legislation and we are not allowed to purchase all of any manufacturer's offerings that don't meet these requirements), use any quality 2K primer.

When in final primer, (this will take more than 1 prime session) block your vehicle with either a minimum of 400 grit dry or 600 grit wet sand paper until all panels are straight (you will have burn through's, body work repairs etc. and need to re prime several times before you are ready for paint).

I never use sealer...it is not required if your prep on the body of the vehicle has been done properly...I repeat, I never use sealer.

The DBC line is a quality base coat and do not have an issue with it at all. The clear coat DC 4000 is a respectable clear...I would prefer the Concept 2021 clear...In my opinion it has a deeper gloss, easier to apply, great hold out and tough as nails. The only draw back is that if you are color sanding and polishing your car, you need to complete this task with 4 weeks of painting...if a longer period of time is left between color sanding and polishing, it can be a touch more difficult to bring the gloss to your expectations.

There is much more involved in getting a vehicle ready for paint than discussed in my response to your questions about products. What I have given you are my opinions, if you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I will help in any way I can.

Hope this helps.
Ray

Haven't bought anything yet, still in the planning stages.

I had heard a little about the Fiberglass Evercoat rage and Rage Gold filler and it's all been good. The only reason I was going to go with the ppg filler is to stick with one product line start to finish but if it will work better without problems then i am all for it.

I had planned on stripping the entire car using the methods you described.

On the body work, you are referring to the more major work, correct? As in I should save the filler/skim coat for after the first stage of primer.

So on the surfacer would you recommend the K38 High Build Primer Surfacer over the DZ3?

Is their a problem using a sealer or is it just a redundant step in your opinion?

I will look into the Concept 2021 clear, it sounds good so far, the wet sand window shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks

69 widetrack 12-08-2012 10:53 AM

There aren't any problems associated with using Rage or Rage Gold...I do appreciate the fact that you wanted to use one brand through out but with respect to filler it's not necessary.

Over bare metal, an epoxy primer would be recommended, if your using PPG's DP line, it should be top coated with a 2K primer like K38. The DP epoxies do not sand well at all, but, give excellent rust protection. K38 does have excellent sanding qualities and great hold out. DZ3 is also an unnecessary step.

Do your major body work when the car is stripped (and as many small dents as well), apply your primer...Guide coat, block sand...repair low and high spots...primer block sand...guide coat, block sand, etc...until the car is straight.

Paint companies recommend sealer. I've had this argument many times with paint companies that insist that sealer be used...I ask them 1 question and that question is...When you have a car that requires paint to be blended, why don't they recommend sealer...The answer is that sealer isn't transparent and you couldn't do a proper blend...Then I ask, does the paint and clear still stick?...They say of course it does...then think about it and tell me that I'm right, sealer is not required. Sealer is used so that people can prep a car in a rougher grit of paper, get the job done quicker, seal it to cover the sand scratches and paint. If you prep your car properly sealer is not needed. In my opinion is just another layer of paint material that you can get dirt in while your painting, prep your car properly and save a couple of hundred dollars on material by not buying sealer.

PPG does have other good clears, being from Canada I'm not familiar with all the US part numbers (some are different)...Concept 2021 is and excellent clear as I described earlier. Check out PPG's Global line. They have excellent overall clears as well that do have better sanding qualities than the 2021 Concept a Canadian part # that comes to mind is D894. This clear does polish better than the concept product. I've done several show quality vehicles with it and have been extremely happy. It's your call, either are good clears.

Hope this helps, any more questions? keep them coming.

Ray

paint dude 12-08-2012 09:24 PM

Reading through your post, after you strip your car to metal you can use dplf for a primer.Dplf is not intended to be sanded, Its a primer not a surfacer,I use Dps 3055 as my surfacer, sands every well and has not shrinkage. Do not use dz3 Its a laquer based product, You want a 2k product all the way up.Also I personaly wouldnt use Dplf for a sealer, I used to use it faithfully till the new products came out.Using Dplf lines for a sealer will shrink back as it drys, Use Das 3025 for your sealer, Dc4000 is a great clear I use it everyday.

69 widetrack 12-09-2012 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paint dude (Post 1620660)
Reading through your post, after you strip your car to metal you can use dplf for a primer.Dplf is not intended to be sanded, Its a primer not a surfacer,I use Dps 3055 as my surfacer, sands every well and has not shrinkage. Do not use dz3 Its a laquer based product, You want a 2k product all the way up.Also I personaly wouldnt use Dplf for a sealer, I used to use it faithfully till the new products came out.Using Dplf lines for a sealer will shrink back as it drys, Use Das 3025 for your sealer, Dc4000 is a great clear I use it everyday.

"Paint Dude" is right, DPLF was not intended to be sanded, it's an epoxy primer to help minimize corrosion. As I mentioned in my earlier posts DZ3 is not a product I would purchase for your project...I don't think the OP ever wanted wanted to use the DPLF line as a sealer and I still maintain that a sealer is not required at all if your car is prepped properly...I have explained why and stand fast on the sealer issue...just not required (unless you want to bury sins that where left when the vehicle was prepped, othe rthan that it serves no purpose)...And yes the DC4000 is a very good clear...with the D894 suggestion I was just giving the OP options.

Ray

Old Fool 12-09-2012 06:41 PM

Do yourself a great big favor, contact Barry @ SPI and use his products. You will get equal or better at a lower price and unequaled customer service, along with free shipping if no dealer in your neck of the woods.

PPG is good stuff, but overpriced and not as user friendly as SPI.


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