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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2012, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
perfect Carlos, I'll wait to see your posts tomorrow.

Ray
So the TransAm brake system is a bust for me, it's electronic. Here are the pictures. I think I'll end up getting an adjustable proportioning valve and adjust it so I get better pressure to the rear if it's needed and if that can be done.

I'm also thinking when I want to go fast I can do that at work (average cruise speed 150 mph in the helicopter) andsince I don't drive my cars fast anymore (have to drive slow if I want people to admire my hard work restoring it) then I can l live with the current setup taken from the '79 Camaro. I also take into consideration that since I'm replacing all the heavy rear metal with a flat bed that the rear is going to be so light compared with the front that I actually need more to the front brakes anyway because the rear will most likely lock up if I brake hard.

Any logic to this newbie's thinking or am I just rationalizing it?

Back to the shop now to clean up the current brake booster so I can paint it later. Be back this afternoon...
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2012, 12:45 PM
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What that is, is an ABS system, I believe.....What year is the Trans Am?
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2012, 12:47 PM
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'95 and yes it says ABS on the wheels. I bought it for the rear end, disc brakes, and emergency brake system.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2012, 12:56 PM
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remember that 4 whl disc brakes use a different master than disc/drum. Nothing wrong with drum brakes,disc are just better because they work better when they get wet,have less brake fade if you drive fast.

ALSO,its not the brakes that stop the car.The tires stop the car. Brakes turn friction into heat. bald tires and no stopping. If your front and rear tires do not match then swapping ends is a possibility. Thats why we have abs now. disc brakes are less prone to locking because of the physics involved in how they work
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2012, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRHeloPilot View Post
So the TransAm brake system is a bust for me, it's electronic. Here are the pictures. I think I'll end up getting an adjustable proportioning valve and adjust it so I get better pressure to the rear if it's needed and if that can be done.

I'm also thinking when I want to go fast I can do that at work (average cruise speed 150 mph in the helicopter) andsince I don't drive my cars fast anymore (have to drive slow if I want people to admire my hard work restoring it) then I can l live with the current setup taken from the '79 Camaro. I also take into consideration that since I'm replacing all the heavy rear metal with a flat bed that the rear is going to be so light compared with the front that I actually need more to the front brakes anyway because the rear will most likely lock up if I brake hard.

Any logic to this newbie's thinking or am I just rationalizing it?

Back to the shop now to clean up the current brake booster so I can paint it later. Be back this afternoon...
Unfortunate about the Trans Am's brake system.

An adjustable proportioning valve is a step in the right direction. All vehicles have the majority of braking power going to the front wheels...You will be able to set up (to a degree) your braking preference. Without being there to assist in the set up a place to start would be about 65 front 35 rear, these are rudimentary guesstimates, like I said, it's difficult to get you an actual workable percentage unless your there.

Much more help can be given when you get to that point and have specific questions.

Yes Carlos, there is much logic in what your saying.

Ray
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:04 PM
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Vinnie, Let me see if I understand what you're saying.

Tire sizes and condition all being good (16 inch on both but wider in back and thinner in front) , if I install the TrasAm rear with the disc brakes and leave my current '79 Camaro booster that came for front discs only then the rear disc brakes won't work?
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Unfortunate about the Trans Am's brake system.

An adjustable proportioning valve is a step in the right direction. All vehicles have the majority of braking power going to the front wheels...You will be able to set up (to a degree) your braking preference. Without being there to assist in the set up a place to start would be about 65 front 35 rear, these are rudimentary guesstimates, like I said, it's difficult to get you an actual workable percentage unless your there.

Much more help can be given when you get to that point and have specific questions.

Yes Carlos, there is much logic in what your saying.

Ray
OK just want to make sure I can actually use that TrasAm rear because although I don't necessarily need the disc brakes I do need the emergency brake system and I already spent the money on this donor car and was told that this differential was lower so I'll also get better gas mileage later at highway speeds instead of being all over-reved. Also it's supposed to have limited slip so that's also a plus.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2012, 01:35 PM
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What I love about these forums is that as the answers roll in they get me thinking in the right direction and I can go research it. I just went and researched a little more about the adjustable PV and like you say Ray 65/35 is the consensus to start.

So I'm thinking that I shouldn't worry too much because since my current master has a smaller reservoir in the back then it will get less pressure to the rear anyway, right?

I'm also thinking I shouldn't worry about that for now until I actually have it all installed then if I need it will something like this make it work ? :


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-260-11179


or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-P...7441%26ps%3D54



I love learning and building this truck myself with the help from all you guys is awesome !!! It also helps my diet because instead of being bored on my days off and looking in the fridge every hour, as long as I'm working on the truck or researching things here I forget to eat junk food, win- win !!

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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2012, 01:42 PM
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yes you can use the rear disc brakes.You will need to upgrade the master to a disc/disc master.The disc system runs higher pressures and requires more brake fluid.The more brake fluid is because the adjustment,or pad wear compensation is made up with brake fluid volume. The adjustable proportioning valve just makes it easier to tune.You will need to weigh the truck when finished to see your weigh bias{c of G} then compensate for inertia and front Vs rear tire size. skinny front tires will ock up faster if too skinny and of course traction compounds make a difference. Look at road race tires as an example Vs drag radials. Drag radials handle fair but have excellent traction for acceleration. r r tires have more lateral traction and may have better braking traction than acceleration traction.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
yes you can use the rear disc brakes.You will need to upgrade the master to a disc/disc master.The disc system runs higher pressures and requires more brake fluid.The more brake fluid is because the adjustment,or pad wear compensation is made up with brake fluid volume. The adjustable proportioning valve just makes it easier to tune.You will need to weigh the truck when finished to see your weigh bias{c of G} then compensate for inertia and front Vs rear tire size. skinny front tires will ock up faster if too skinny and of course traction compounds make a difference. Look at road race tires as an example Vs drag radials. Drag radials handle fair but have excellent traction for acceleration. r r tires have more lateral traction and may have better braking traction than acceleration traction.
So I'll have to buy a master with 2 big reservoirs so I don't run out of fluid to the rear? Is the master a universal size and will bolt onto my booster? Will something like this work?

Master Cylinder Proportioning 2 lb Residual Valve Hot Rat Rod Manual Brakes 10 | eBay

Of course I'll go dumpster diving at the local junk yard first if I can get something good for less and regarding the tires they'll be both basically the same size 16 just a little wider in the back to look good. Nothing fancy like skinny drag racing tires in front and slicks in the back, just normal every day street tires.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:02 PM
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OK, now if I understand correctly you want to use the Trans Am rear end but not the electronics, is that correct?

Yes front disc master cylinders have a larger reservoir in the front. It's about brake pressure, and not so much about reservoir size. Brake pressure is determined by how much fluid goes into the caliper or wheel cylinder (Depending if you have disc or drum brakes, disc-caliper, drum-wheel cylinder). Fluid pressure can be regulated by the proportioning valve. An adjustable proportioning valve will let you regulate how much fluid you are simultaneously sending to the front and the rear brakes.

I will do some checking on the electronic rear brake system and how the use will affect this application.

Does this help for now?
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2012, 02:05 PM
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I did a little checking and Vinnie is correct in the master cylinder upgrade, good call Vinnie.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2012, 02:07 PM
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remember this post next time the amo looks for one used blade from a similar helicopter for your bird?lol.
Buy a guy master cylinder.look at wilwood for after market or find a camaro that has 4w disc system and make sure it mates properly. After the master get a good adjustable proportioning valve,use new steel lines.After that used is ok.imo. you still need to research pads,,,there are different compounds some have a lot of metal,some are extra soft for fast stopping,some are colour neutral to prevent stains on nice wheels,,,
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2012, 02:15 PM
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guy = new,lol,sorry
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:39 PM
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Ray, I want to take the TransAm rear because it has an emergency brake system, disc brakes, and limited slip differential and use it with my current setup. New brake lines of course but I now will need a different master with 2 same size big reservoirs to get this ball rolling, or actually to get it stopping

Is the master a universal size to make with my booster? If not I'll take my booster with me to make sure it fits. Does the make of the car I take it off of make any difference (Ford, Chevy, etc) as long as it mates with my booster and has 2 big reservoirs?

Vinnie, I know it was a joke but you can't just replace blades from another helo, they have to be a matched set due to a whole lot of other things besides weight and balance. It has to do with Lead and Lag and Ground Resonance on landing, etc....see that's where I can start a lecture here if this were a helicopter forum.

Heading to the store to get some sand for the sand blaster. Got some small things to clean up.
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