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-   -   Artist depicts sedan/delivery (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/artist-depicts-sedan-delivery-200703.html)

cboy 06-20-2011 08:27 PM

Artist depicts sedan/delivery
 
My wife stumbled on this purely be accident when she googled "Buster's Surf Shop"...which is the logo on my sedan delivery. We were pleasantly surprised to discover the very first item returned by the search was this artist's rendering of my car. I have never met the artist nor do I know when he did the rendering of the car, but we think it is from "Back to the 50's" in 2010 because the green car in the background is my friend 454 Rattler's car, and that is how we were parked for that show.

http://www.hotrodders.com/gallery/da...urf_shop_1.jpg

Here is the site where we discovered this print was for sale. You can also see a much higher quality version of the print by going to the site and clicking to enlarge the photo. Also, be sure to read the comments section below the art. Some pretty funny comments about having to be a contortionist to fit in the car.

Also here is the artist's own site where much of his work is displayed. He's got some very well done hot rod art that is worth browsing.

[As noted, I have no relationship whatsoever, financial or otherwise, with this artist of the sale of these prints...just a coincidence that my wife even stumbled across it - Dewey]

Only Racing 06-22-2011 01:45 AM

Wow, it looks like a Rat Rod Studio clone. BTW, that site is impressive.

cboy 06-22-2011 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only Racing
...BTW, that site is impressive...

Amen to that. I have the sense he is a car lover who took up photography rather than and photographer who took up cars.

My son-in-law (who is in the graphics business) thinks the artist may be using HDR (High Dynamic Range) photography and imaging techniques...at least in the "Buster's" image. Any of you guys using HDR or experimenting with it? Sounds like one could get some very interesting results. I'd like to see some examples/tutorials if any of you are messing with it.

OLNOLAN 06-22-2011 07:19 AM

Hmmmm
 
Hmmmm, Cool artist depiction. Surely made you proud. But it made me wonder about him using your art in his art, then selling it, without you getting a nickel out of the deal. ??? Whats your opinion? Nolan

454 Rattler 06-22-2011 08:06 AM

That's pretty cool, Dewey.

I looked at his stuff. Very interesting work.

Maybe you want to add this to your Christmas List.


454 RATTLER

cboy 06-22-2011 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLNOLAN
... But it made me wonder about him using your art in his art, then selling it, without you getting a nickel out of the deal. ??? Whats your opinion? Nolan

Kind of you to note your concerns Nolan.

Other than the initial shock of discovering this on the internet, I have no problem with what the artist is doing here and I'm fairly certain he is totally within his rights under copyright law and the rules governing "intellectual property".

As long as he is taking his own photos or making his own renderings, he does not have to get permission from the "owner" of the original item he is photographing or sketching. This is why you see new "test cars" out on the track with disguises over the body panels. The photographer has every right to snap and publish (sell) any picture he can get of the car, even thought the car and the design are the property of the manufacturer.

Strangely enough, however, if I was to make a copy of the "Buster" rendering and put it up for sale next to my car at a car show...then I would be violating this artist's copyright protections and he could come after me for a portion of the proceeds. Go figure.

Sure, it might have been nice for him to provide a "courtesy" notification of some sort, but I'm sure he takes hundreds and hundreds of pictures which would become a file clerks nightmare to try to keep records of for notification purposes. So I just consider it an honor of sorts and if he sells a print or two...more power to him. I'd be proud to have my heap hanging on some stranger's wall.

Only Racing 06-22-2011 11:28 AM

It's definately HHR, many different programs give you different results, I don't think HDR was used primarily on that image, there are a few teqhniues out there to get results like that, mainly dodging and burning or overlay blending.

Most of the other stuff is alot of real HDR and pretty good. If you google HDR Photography you will find a bunch of groups that only do this. Simple programs with a little thought behind what you will do with the image is how it starts. The best method is bracketing your photos on a tripod a different exposures then the program bends them. Most I have seen lately are more of a brighter image, I prefer the darker style.

As for the copyright, if he took the photo he's allowed to do anything he wants it's his period. If he took it from you and ether modified it or removed a copyright, then he's in trouble, it's that simple.,

Be aware that any image you may place on Facebook, they own it no questions asked. Read the terms of agreeement, VERY LONG at Facebook.

cboy 06-22-2011 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only Racing
...It's definately HHR...

What's the difference between HHR and HDR?

Also, interesting comment regarding Facebook and copyright. What happens if someone uploads a picture they shot, then realizes their error, and deletes the photo. Can Facebook still claim they own the rights based on their cashe of the pic?

NEW INTERIORS 06-22-2011 02:17 PM

Look's great cboy.. :thumbup:

Look's like anyone can make money off anything we do today... :mad:

Only Racing 06-22-2011 07:07 PM

Woop's my bad, I mistyped HDR in the first sentence. HDR is merely when done right multiple exposures in RAW format "RAW" is basically a negative type image from a digital camera so it can be manipulated for obvious reasons like wrong exposure and tint maybe too warm or cool ior possibly needs extreme sharpening.

Guys found that blending or integrating many "Bracketed" images could result in a dreamy of more artistic image. Again I like the darker versions myself over the really bright ones.

Bracketing is available on many camera's even point and shoots. You set the amount of images you want to bracket, the higher end camera's will do more than 12 exposures of one shot. Using shutter speeds to go from extremely under exposed to the right exposure then to the most over exposed. You may find it in your owners manual for point and shoot camera's. A pro body has it pretty much laid out with it's own area on the dial.

Now you have 12 full resloution images, your camera may say it's 15 megapixels but in reality that is only for shooting RAW, standard JPG's are half the full resolution, so it's more like an 8 megapixel due to JPG compression.

Now, what to do with those images, but lets cut it down to three exposures which is normal for most 1: UNDER EXPOSED, 2: PERFECT, 3: OVER EXPOSED

Bring them into any program that accepts a RAW or DNG depending on camera manufacturer and you now are looking at the highest resolution image you can take with your camera. In photoshop it has tools to "develop" these images, othe programs like Lightroom are much cheaper and do the same thing. Now you need a program to create the HDR, Akvis, and Photomatrix come to mind, cheap and efficient IMO. good results too. It will merge them together with you choosing the best possible highlight and tone to the image. The three or up to 12 exposures gives you a wide range of light or shadow to get an expression from an image.

Once merged it can be saved as either a photshop document or a standard JPG. Once saved you still have the RAW files untouched. What you can do afterwards is extend that by layering the same image and switching blending modes to create even cooler looks to the photo.

There are programs that will do this to a standard JPG file but results are nowhere near as clean, look up on shot HDR jpg. It is fun to play with.

As for the Facebook part of that, yes, it is cached and they own it, FB never removes anything, the little smart guy is as good as anyone from MIT, so he knew it all starting out.

OLNOLAN 06-23-2011 07:53 AM

Clarification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cboy
Kind of you to note your concerns Nolan.

Other than the initial shock of discovering this on the internet, I have no problem with what the artist is doing here and I'm fairly certain he is totally within his rights under copyright law and the rules governing "intellectual property".

As long as he is taking his own photos or making his own renderings, he does not have to get permission from the "owner" of the original item he is photographing or sketching. This is why you see new "test cars" out on the track with disguises over the body panels. The photographer has every right to snap and publish (sell) any picture he can get of the car, even thought the car and the design are the property of the manufacturer.

Strangely enough, however, if I was to make a copy of the "Buster" rendering and put it up for sale next to my car at a car show...then I would be violating this artist's copyright protections and he could come after me for a portion of the proceeds. Go figure.

Sure, it might have been nice for him to provide a "courtesy" notification of some sort, but I'm sure he takes hundreds and hundreds of pictures which would become a file clerks nightmare to try to keep records of for notification purposes. So I just consider it an honor of sorts and if he sells a print or two...more power to him. I'd be proud to have my heap hanging on some stranger's wall.

Dewey, I just wanted to make sure you did not take my comment in a negative fashion. There was no intent to rain on your parade. I think that scratch built hotrods are works of art, with you having the eye of a true artist. I've told you this before. I have wondered about this "copyright" issue before in regard to "art". My daughter for instance, watermarks any photo she posts on a internet site because she considers it "her art". Could you for instance have a copyright on your car as a work of art?

So, not really wanting to stick out like a turd in the punchbowl, I think that I have seen photos posted on HotRodders.com later become watermarked with "Hotrodders.com". Which brings up the question, does any photo posted on this website become Jon's intellectual property, where is, he could later sell somewhere else? I just have a curious mind and a weak understanding of copyright laws, etc.

With that said, seems like the guy could at least send you some free prints to give to your family and friends. Or, maybe my way of thinking is flawed. If I had the talent to build a hotrod from scratch, I would be pissed to see someone making money off of my blood, sweat and tears. Then on the other hand, if you ever decided to sell it, I guess the publicity helps.

Again, congratulations on having your art noticed enough to get on TV and having other artist doing depictions of it. :thumbup: Nolan

cboy 06-23-2011 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLNOLAN
Dewey, I just wanted to make sure you did not take my comment in a negative fashion.

Not at all Nolan. I took your post as looking out for my best interests.

And I'm with you. Copyright law fries my brain. It is very very complicated. And has been made 10 times more complicated by the proliferation of photos, music and images on the web.

Regarding the watermarking of photos uploaded to Hotrodders.Com, I believe Jon does that to protect each of us who has uploaded pictures. In effect, it is a warning to anyone who attempts to use or replicate any of our photos that these images belong to the original poster and they are not to be used for other purposes.

I also believe it is Jon's position that the rights to all photos here on HR.Com belong to the original poster and that they can not be used for any other commercial purpose without the consent of the poster/photographer. Obviously, enforcing that protection is an entirely different matter. And most of us post with the full knowledge that our photos are liable to end up just about anywhere on the web.

As Only Racing has pointed out, anyone can take a photo or do a sketch of one of our hot rods while it is parked on the street or at a show. That is totally within their rights and that photo/image becomes THEIR intellectual property.

On the other hand, my car is MY intellectual property in that Streetbeast could not produce an exact fiberglass replica of the car without my authorization. By the same token, Revelle would have to have authorization to produce a "model" of this exact car.

Like I said. It gets quite complicated.

66SSImp454 06-23-2011 12:08 PM

What about infringment on your business name?

cboy 06-23-2011 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66SSImp454
What about infringment on your business name?

Hypothetically, that might be a valid point...for some rodder who had a real business. But "Buster's Surf Shop", in Lac du Flambeau, Wisconsin, is just a whimsical fabrication. We are 1,000 miles from anything resembling real surf. And Buster is my dog...shown below driving my roadster in the sedan's graphic.

And I say "hypothetically" because I'm ecstatic this artist has used my creation as the basis for his own creation. And even if I did happen to be in the REAL surf shop business I'd be even more ecstatic because of the potential free publicity this artist might create.

Others may take a different view of things. But that's mine.

http://www.hotrodders.com/journal_ph...2611041480.jpg

Only Racing 06-24-2011 05:59 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Here's the skinny on the most basic of copyrifght laws in laymans terms.

1, there is intellectual property for the main which may seem to imply that because you thought it up it's yours. In a way it's true. Say you design a car and "Hot Wheels" makes one, you have the original stuff to prove that it was your design or idea, you have them big time. You go to patent an idea and someone beats you to it, you not only have the copyright of the idea but you applied for the patent and it's exactly the same, you have them also, this is mainly business at its worst.

For Images: If you drew an image, took the image, made the image and so on, then someone uses it by removing the copyright or modifying the image without your consent, it's infringement in the simplest form. If I add Hotrodders.com to one of my illustrations I cannot sell it without properly giving Jon his cut or share since I'm adding to the image and using Hotrodders as a part of it, even if it's only text and not his logo. That is fair practice and I would use his websites good name to possibly enhance it's overall appeal.

If it winds up to be ficticious like Deweys Surf Shop but there possibly is one somewhere for real at the time of the artwork, then it's trouble too.

Any image posted on the net is your property and governed by any copyright law even if you don't physically put a copyright on it. I implore anyone though to add something to an image, signature, or text / logo just for piece of mind.

Jon and Hotrodders is using his space to allow you to upload images to his gallery or your album, just as anyone with a photosharing place does. They can use an image simply becasue of the way a gallery is made to say highlight a gallery or someones album, this doesn't mean anything has been done wrong. If it wound up making him money it's simply luck only and the nature of the gallery / album is a side interest of the way it was portrayed on the net.

Here's a good example of how someone as big as NHRA can simply take an image and alter it. Not only did they remove my copyright but they are also "misrepresenting and NHRA Event" The image below is from this months Drag Illustrated, Notice the "Published by NHRA Communications" to which I'm not a part of. Second, Notice the area's marked off where the copyright has been covered over by the upper part of the track, simply cloning the above part The Red Box is where my copyright was. 3rd and which I feel is the worst part is actually "misrepresenting the actual NHRA Unleashed Event" buy using an image from a highly popular event called the Shakedown At E Town, This is a race at Englishtown NJ not South Georgia Motorsports Park. I have done articles and flyers for races, which it's intent was to depict a race, it's also my uderstanding that if I "Misrepresent a race" by using an image from another event that may make the one being shown more "appealing" then I am liable for that misrepresentation.

See the Two Images Below

Don't know how I'll pursue this but I will.


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