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auto darkening welding helmets

69K views 90 replies 36 participants last post by  Jake_Dragon 
#1 ·
Is a $180.00 auto darkening helmet from National Welders that much better, than one for $60.00 at Harbor Freight or Northern Tool?
Is there a quality or safety issue between them?
Thanks
 
#2 ·
tcoop said:
Is a $180.00 auto darkening helmet from National Welders that much better, than one for $60.00 at Harbor Freight or Northern Tool?
Is there a quality or safety issue between them?
Thanks
Well you do kind of get what you pay for but both will work I have found that the higher end hoods have much more adjustment which is good for TIG work. But for Arc and Mig I don't see much difference but I have had some guys complain about eye strain using the cheaper version due to the slower reaction time but it is hard to believe. I personally finally ponied up and bought a good Miller hood and love it just my opinion hope it helps I am sure I will get corrected tho! :thumbup:
 
#3 ·
Most of the quality difference is in the shell and headband and the HF helmet has the same "Chameleon" lens found in some "brand name" helmets. Although I think the Hobart/Miller helmet, the one called "the hood" by Hobart, has a different lens than they had about 10 years ago, they did at that time share the EXACT same lens as the HF helmet. I have seen and used the HF model and it definitely is a good one for the money but the headgear is a bit flimsy although the lens is about as good as any I have tried. I had the older Hobart outfit and I now use a $400 Jackson which is top quality and has a few extra features but the HF helmet functions just as good as for lens function. If safety is the main concern then don't worry about the HF outfit because all of these auto dark helmets have to meet the same government mandated safety standards. Also you can ignore those goofy urban legend sob stories about some poor worker who went blind because he was forced by his employer to use a faulty auto dark helmet that failed to darken fast enough. :rolleyes: There are any number of variations to that story but none are true because an auto dark helmet will provide the same UV protection in the lightened state as it will when dark. It can be a bit un-nerving when the darn things fail to go dark but it is not harmful and you will not burn your eyes if it happens, and it will all too often! There was a lot of concern about this when those things first came out and as the field rep for Jackson pointed out if there was any way you could cause harm by the helmet failing in any way, especially by failing to darken, then the product liability and workers comp lawyers would put the manufacturers out of business PDQ! I read an article about welding in a magazine not long ago and it was mentioned that UV damage is cumulative (that part is true) and because an auto dark takes a fraction of a second to go dark that it was not recommended to use one for extended periods because the time adds up but THAT IS TOTAL Bull$^##! An auto dark helmet provides the same protection before it goes dark as it does when darkened and is as safe or safer than a conventional helmet because unlike a conventional type the auto dark provides protection light or dark!
 
#5 ·
I have one of the expensive self darkening helmets and used it for years....... Till I found a simple photoelectric self darkening helmet at HF for about $40. No batteries, it adjusts from 10-12 and works like a champ. Next time I'm down in the valley at HF I'm going to pick up another just to have as a spare.
 
#6 ·
Centerline said:
I have one of the expensive self darkening helmets and used it for years....... Till I found a simple photoelectric self darkening helmet at HF for about $40. No batteries, it adjusts from 10-12 and works like a champ. Next time I'm down in the valley at HF I'm going to pick up another just to have as a spare.
I have the same HF helmet,I like it.It works very well.I too will buy another one if mine goes out. :thumbup:
 
#8 ·
I have a Miller auto dark and just got a new job TIG welding and Mig welding. Mostly stainless steel. The problem is that the welds are on 3/4 to 1 in material and the darkest setting is still about 1 shade not enough. After the 2nd day my eyes are really tired. It's hard switching from one process to the other but the auto dark is easy to adjust. It's just the MIG on the thick stuff is really bright. I even tried adding sunglasses but if anything they made it worse.

I used a whole spool of .045 wire in 4-5 hours. It's almost non stop. Then switch to tig. I'd guess at least 5 pounds of rod. They told me there is an even bigger job coming.
 
#9 ·
oldred said:
Most of the quality difference is in the shell and headband and the HF helmet has the same "Chameleon" lens found in some "brand name" helmets. Although I think the Hobart/Miller helmet, the one called "the hood" by Hobart, has a different lens than they had about 10 years ago, they did at that time share the EXACT same lens as the HF helmet. I have seen and used the HF model and it definitely is a good one for the money but the headgear is a bit flimsy although the lens is about as good as any I have tried. I had the older Hobart outfit and I now use a $400 Jackson which is top quality and has a few extra features but the HF helmet functions just as good as for lens function. If safety is the main concern then don't worry about the HF outfit because all of these auto dark helmets have to meet the same government mandated safety standards. Also you can ignore those goofy urban legend sob stories about some poor worker who went blind because he was forced by his employer to use a faulty auto dark helmet that failed to darken fast enough. :rolleyes: There are any number of variations to that story but none are true because an auto dark helmet will provide the same UV protection in the lightened state as it will when dark. It can be a bit un-nerving when the darn things fail to go dark but it is not harmful and you will not burn your eyes if it happens, and it will all too often! There was a lot of concern about this when those things first came out and as the field rep for Jackson pointed out if there was any way you could cause harm by the helmet failing in any way, especially by failing to darken, then the product liability and workers comp lawyers would put the manufacturers out of business PDQ! I read an article about welding in a magazine not long ago and it was mentioned that UV damage is cumulative (that part is true) and because an auto dark takes a fraction of a second to go dark that it was not recommended to use one for extended periods because the time adds up but THAT IS TOTAL Bull$^##! An auto dark helmet provides the same protection before it goes dark as it does when darkened and is as safe or safer than a conventional helmet because unlike a conventional type the auto dark provides protection light or dark!
listen to oldred when it comes to anything concerning welding. i bought an auto darkening welding helment off fleabay, but i could have bought the same helment from HF a few months later. they are regulated by our guberment, oldred is the guy who knows when it comes to welding... :welcome:
 
#11 ·
My northern tool helmet cost like $49 and changes to full dark in like .0000000025 seconds, no way is that too slow.

I think I would be more likely to strike an arc with a normal hemet up than have this one fail.

My cousin owns a shop and bought a $250 helmet, the diff is all in the quality of the straps and materials, not in the lens

Keith
 
#13 ·
I have bought a couple of the cheap helmets over the years...

I found them to work very well, However:

my only advise is to buy the SOLAR powered one that does not use batteries.

the battery ones have a power saver that keeps switching the helmet off and that is a pain in the butt!

ALSO....make sure the lens darkening control knob is on the outside of the helmet so you can easy adjust w/out taking helmet off.

ps: the solar unit works real good in low light conditions as well...
 
#14 ·
techron said:
listen to oldred when it comes to anything concerning welding. i bought an auto darkening welding helment off fleabay, but i could have bought the same helment from HF a few months later. they are regulated by our guberment, oldred is the guy who knows when it comes to welding... :welcome:
There are a few others here also!!!! :nono:
 
#16 ·
tcoop said:
Thanks for all the help on this. Seems like a HF helmet is good, but I need to find one that is solar powered and not battery. Thanks again for the help...
I just saw one on Harbor web site for $59.95....chicago electric brand..

solar powered.....external controls.....and a flip up lens....and a slim helmet design...

looks good to me! :thumbup:
 
#17 ·
........ Man really interesting reading here. Are you telling me that because the government has some mandate/law on the auto darkening light filtering standards. That YOUR safety somehow is not a responsibility that is necessary for the individual to be concerned with?

And then go and buy some china crap and come over to my car and tell me that the 2 dollar helmet is just as good as the 235 dollar one ............... very enlightening. The question NOW becomes how did you do the test for verification OR did you read the label on that product to determine this fact. If the label is the source of the information just let me put out a little clue for anyone to chew on ......... Ever heard of counterfeit money, what makes you think that this is not done elsewhere? I know only money is counterfeited......

Paint 2 cars black and use the cheaper paint of the SAME manufacture on one and go with the good stuff on the other. Now set them in the sun and take a wag at which one will out last the other , perform and indoor time the longest.

No wonder we have such substandard product floating around. For instance, cell phones that do all sorts of tricks. But the one thing they were designed for originally, the stupid piece of crap can not do .......... Make a phone call that does NOT include the words "can you here me now"

I personally do not believe for one second that the hf helmets are as good doing the same job as the better brands, to the ones that think it can happen ............ fine it is your eyes and while you are spending your money on you sight problems. I on the other hand will be at the speed shop spending my money on faster parts ................ good luck with your cheep eye protection just a gamble I personally am not interested in taking.
 
#18 ·
The HF helmets are NOT as good as the miller Hobart ect.

One reason has been said before. the hoods and straps are FAR better quality.

Take it from someone who has burned their eyes pretty badly welding.

The HF helmet is great for the DIY weekend tinkerer.....However if your job is welding all day everyday I would invest in a better helmet.

But even then I doubt that the .0025 sec difference each time you strike the ark or start the bead is going to do your eyes any harm....no more than being outside on a bright snowy day!

I trust oldred and the others on this one.....and like I said before I have a slezebay helmet and LOVE it. Best 40 bucks I'v spent in a long time.
 
#19 ·
As I mentioned earlier when the Hobart/Miller helmet first came out (the one called "the hood") it had the EXACT SAME lens as the HF helmet sold at that time (not sure what either uses now). When I picked up a HF helmet at the store I thought the shade adjustment switch looked familiar so I checked out the lens and it turned out to be the SAME EXACT "Chameleon" brand lens that was in the $200 Hobart I had bought a few weeks earlier and this was in a $49.95 HF outfit! :mad: The Hobart helmet had a better shell and headgear but not that much better and the electrics were the same thing. As far as the time it takes to change to dark being a concern you can believe what you want but the mechanics of how the thing works means that the UV will be stopped regardless of whether or not the thing goes dark so it is not an issue. Where did I get this? Not from reading a label but from discussions with Jackson welding products early on when these things first came on the scene, the field reps came out and explained how they worked and did demos with a meter that measured the UV during exposure to an arc. The auto dark, even the very early designs, stopped the UV even in the lightened stage and it was explained to us then that the UV protection is not dependent on the lens changing shade. I have used the the Auto dark outfits since they first came out and this was in some very demanding conditions where shade change failures were common because of awkward welding positions causing sensor blockage. I, and others I worked with, were "flashed" many times often with large rod/wire and high AMPs while using both brand names and no-name gear but to my knowledge none of us suffered any problems from this. The Jackson rep said the hardest sell he had was to convince people that the shade going dark had nothing to do with UV protection and that they were not being exposed to UV during the time it takes for these things to change. The myth still persists even after they have been around for over twenty years and you can still hear those BS stories about workers going blind because the helmet changed shades too slow. :rolleyes: The fact is, Government standards or not, if any of that non-sense was true and you could harm yourself with one of these things the lawyers would be having a field day with the companies who sell them, to quote the Jackson rep "If you think convincing OSHA was hard you should have seen us trying to convince the company lawyers!". There are far more of the cheap HF variety helmets out there in use than the big brand names but other than a few "urban legends" not much is heard about them. Fellows stopping the UV is not rocket science (in the beginning it was done by smoking a piece of clear glass over a fire! :pain: ) and you are not depending on the electrics of these things for that protection so shade reaction time is not going to cause you to go blind from UV exposure.


One thing to mention is to NEVER use these, or even a conventional helmet, without the cover plates because even though the cover plate is clear it still has quite a bit of the UV protection!
 
#21 ·
I was going to chime in before, but the one thing I can bring in is this. I've noticed that when I use an auto-darkening helmet, I think I weld better. Being a "rookie-novice" welder,I attribute that to the fact that I get a bit jittery when I don't start right where I want to, and then I strike in a few more "odd places"--like oily shop rags-- that I didn't intend on. Maybe I'm just buying into some old wives tail, but I do notice a difference.

Lots of good info to be found otherwise. Serves as a good discussion.


In a while, Chet.
 
#22 ·
This whole subject of auto-darkening lenses is a puzzling one.

At the electronic shops every single computer, stereo, tv set, dvd player, digital camera, etc that I have looked at have one thing in common:

A small label that reads "made in China".....or some other asian country where t labour is cheap....regardless of brand.

The CANON camera I recently bought is made in malaysia.

Matter of fact I was recently looking at fork attachments for my bobcat loader and many of them state that frames made locally; forks imported.

I may be wrong but I really think that ALL of the welding helmets have the auto darkening lenses made in china!

and that the only difference between the no-name helmets and the so-called brand name ones is in the shape and headgear...but the lenses are all the same!

where does one turn to find out the truth?
 
#23 ·
Dusty, I was thinking the same thing but I didn't say anything because I am not sure where most of the brand name lens are made now but I doubt they are made here in the US, most of them anyway. I do know that I have used both the cheap and the name brand helmets and I really can't see much difference in them except for the headgear and shells. There certainly are features on the expensive name outfits that are not on the cheapos but in the case of the (older ones anyway) Hobart helmet the ONLY thing the extra $150 got for the Hobart vs the HF was a better shell/headgear! Most of the fellows in my shop used the cheap helmets and they did spend some time working on the headgear which did not seem to hold up very well but this was in a 10 hour a day shop and they saw more use the first week than most home use helmets will in their lifetime. The lens however did not seem to be a problem and the usual thing to do was to adapt a Jackson, or some other quality type, headgear to the cheapo outfit but for home use the cheap gear will probably be ok. From a safety standpoint it will be up to the buyer to decide for himself but the track record for these things seems to be ok and that really is no surprise because of the way they work a failure to switch shade is more of a comfort issue than a safety issue. As for me I have used the cheap helmets and I would not be afraid to use one, at least that one in question from HF, but I prefer the Jackson for full time work because of the quality and other features. For home use I probably would not spend the $400 I paid for the Jackson and doubt many of the other guys here would want to spend that much either for a weekend use helmet. I did see one cheap helmet that I would not use and some time back someone asked about one of those, these are sometimes found on E-bay and the traveling tool shows that show up from time to time but if you look at one the problems are obvious. Not only is the headgear a joke but the lens does not seal properly so even if it is made of safe material the leakage around the lens housing makes it unsafe to use. Just use common sense when shopping for one of these things and stay away from anything that is obviously shoddy. If you plan to make a living with your welding helmet then I would suggest spending the extra cash on a good one but for weekend home use the HF outfit works just fine at a fraction of the cost. The HF helmet has been around a long time now and it seems to have a good following and if there was a safety issue it would have come to light by now.
 
#25 ·
OLD RED.....

I bought the first generation import helmet , battery powered around 5 years ago....I did not like it....the headband was lousy....the helmet did not have enough sweep rearwards so when welding outside too much ambient light came into the helmet making visibility of the weld area tuff....and the lens once darkened became a very dark shade of green making the weld puddle tuff to see....and the shade control was on the top of the lens on the inside of the helmet....and the batteries shut off automatically all the time between passes...ALL IN ALL THAT HELMET WAS CRAP!

HOWEVER....I did buy a helmet similar to the solar chicago electric sold by harbor a couple of years ago.....(I live in Canada and I got it at Princess Auto;our version of harbor).

I like it very much and have nothing bad to say about it....and have never had any eye irritations.....and it does what I expect of an autodarkening helmet .....and so far the headgear has stood up well....

My only comment about these types of helmets in general is that I would like to have one with a larger lens viewing area....something around 4" square so I would have better visibility when welding overhead or lying on the ground on my side....

as for me.....I am not a weekend amateur....I am a professional in every sense of the word.... :mwink:
 

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#26 ·
Dusty, I know about the lousy helmets I have seen a few of those too, maybe not the exact same one you are talking about but you know what I mean. Certainly not all the cheap helmets are good but not all are bad either and that is what I meant earlier, often the major difference is more in what is holding the lens than the lens itself. HF has a couple of different models but one in particular seems to be the most popular and from the number I have seen in use locally I tend to think it must be a huge seller for them, having used one myself on occasion I can understand why. While that HF outfit seems better than most cheapos some of them are so cumbersome to use with poorly located adjustments (or no adjustments!) and poorly designed shells/headgear they simply can a PITA to use. My point was that passing up an economy helmet based simply on the myth that it might be dangerous because it will fail to switch shade fast enough or not at all sometimes is passing on it for the wrong reason. Obviously if the lens did not go dark and the operator continued to use it anyway the glare would be so bright he would not be able to see what he is doing and I would assume that after a while he would incur injury from it just as he would from looking at any light that bright, but not from UV exposure. I could not imagine someone doing such a thing and if they injured themselves from doing something like that it would hardly be the helmets fault. The bottom line is that contrary to popular belief the operator does not get any extra UV exposure during the time it takes for the lens to switch and the protection is not dependent on the lens switching at all. Personally I think it would make little sense for a person to buy a $400 helmet, as much as I like my Jackson, for weekend or hobby use when the $50 HF outfit would work just fine and just as safely.
 
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