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Auto dimming helmet

8K views 37 replies 18 participants last post by  OHD 
#1 ·
Hey guys
Has anyone tryed one of the auto diming helmets that Summit sells?
They are less than 100$. I want one, but was kind of hesitant to buy a cheap priced helmet.
I really would like the Patriot helmet by Hobart, but they are over 200$ :(
Has anyone tryed one these Summit helmets?
Look like a good deal, but....
 
#4 ·
Chas, if you are going to go with one of the "econo" brands then check out the helmets at Harbor Freight. If you intend to use it everyday at work then by all means go with the Hobart, Jackson or Miller (or any one of the other "pro" models). But if you are doing this for hobby/light duty then Harbor Freight has several different models ranging from about $59 to $79 and all of these are good ones, the electrics appear to be the same but some of the shells and headgear is different. Don't be put off by the fact these are from HF as the electrics in these helmets are the same ones used in a lot of other brands and in fact a few years ago they used the EXACT same one as the Hobart and Miller! I don't know if they still share the electrics with the big names anymore but whatever they are using seems to hold up really well and I know several people here have these things and no one has had anything negative to say about them yet, they have been rated rather highly. That $59 model is often on sale for $49 and I have even seen it for as little as $39 but some of the more expensive (if you can call that expensive :) ) models have a better headgear on them but all of them work quite well and should be every bit as good as the Summit helmet at a lot less cost.
 
#6 ·
I bought a Harbor Freight "solar powered auto-darkening welding helmet" about 3 years ago. The part number now shows discontinued but it appears to be the same as their item 46092 helmet and the price is unchanged. It continues to work and I wouldn't go back to a plain helmet again. My usage is as a hobbyist, as oldred describes. People here recommended I get an auto-darkening helmet and it did help me improve my welding. I have no idea how the HF helmet would compare to others or how it would hold up under professional (daily, paid) use.
 
#7 ·
grouch said:
I bought a Harbor Freight "solar powered auto-darkening welding helmet" about 3 years ago. The part number now shows discontinued but it appears to be the same as their item 46092 helmet and the price is unchanged. It continues to work and I wouldn't go back to a plain helmet again. My usage is as a hobbyist, as oldred describes. People here recommended I get an auto-darkening helmet and it did help me improve my welding. I have no idea how the HF helmet would compare to others or how it would hold up under professional (daily, paid) use.

I bought the same one about a year and half ago, same results as you, grouch. As far as daily use like you mention, I'd be near willing to bet that even if it were to fail multiple times one would still be money ahead versus a Hobart or Miller branded unit. Just a hunch of course....


In a while, Chet.
 
#8 ·
Why is it that people only want the CHEAP helmets???? I don't understand that way of thinking at all, You have one set of good eyes and you want to cheap out on the only protection they will receive from what would normally be blinding light rays. You really need to re-think your priorities. If you can not afford to protect your only set of eye's, then don't weld !!! it's just that simple. Welding is harmful enough with good protection, an if you don't believe me, then go ask any welder that has been in the trade for more then 14 years...

I have been welding since I was 10 years old, how I got started so young? My father was a welder, and he was always gone, so I kept myself busy in the shop making things to show him once he returned. I had absolutely no supervision at all, but my father always stressed the need for proper welding precautions.

I have been using automatic darkening helmets and Shields for the last 23-24 years. back then they cost about $600.00 for a good welding helmet, one like Miller, Hobart or Lincoln. I have never used a cheap welding helmet in my life, except to inspect some junk some dumb person bought, thinking he was getting a bargain. Some bargain, you save a few dollars and go blind 10 years sooner.....You do the math on that one.

Good equipment cost good money. I have seen the junk Harbor Freight sells, and it's just that junk. Now days there is no reason to purchase a junk welding helmet, the price of a brand name like Lincoln, Miller ..so on, has gotten to the level that it makes no sense to not buy their products. I guess there will always be a market for crap, there always seems to be a line at those places, but the wise welder or mechanic will fore-go the cheap stuff and spend there money more wisely. That way maybe they get to work a little longer in the trade they love, or get to see the sights in focus a little longer. If you think welding won't hurt your eyes your an idiot. All welding degrades your eyes, it's a fact. The key is to use the best equipment available and try to midi-gate the damage. I always weld what ever it is I'm working on, like it's the most precious single important thing I can do at that time, because I know each and every weld reduces my vision, and if I'm going to mess with something as dear as sight itself, I'm going to give that project my up-most attention. I never weld anything half-***-ed, just like I never take my sight for granted, and you should show the same respect for your vision. My Father had to give up welding many years ago, his eyes just got to bad. But while he was welding, he was one of the best, he kept us kids warm, feed and clothed with money he made from welding, and I'll never forget that. I know many older welders, and none of them can see very well, they don't complain, but each and every one will tell PO to value your sight while you still have it, it's sorely missed once it's gone.

What's all this mean to you and your original question?.? I'm not sure, but I hope you change your priorities around and stop looking for the cheapest equipment, and in stead, ask a few questions, and the first should be, How well will this welding helmet protect me and my eyes. Once you cross that bridge, the rest will just come along naturally.
Good Luck
 
#10 ·
yknot said:
Why is it that people only want the CHEAP helmets???? I don't understand that way of thinking at all, You have one set of good eyes and you want to cheap out on the only protection they will receive from what would normally be blinding light rays. You really need to re-think your priorities. If you can not afford to protect your only set of eye's, then don't weld !!! it's just that simple. Welding is harmful enough with good protection, an if you don't believe me, then go ask any welder that has been in the trade for more then 14 years...

I have been welding since I was 10 years old, how I got started so young? My father was a welder, and he was always gone, so I kept myself busy in the shop making things to show him once he returned. I had absolutely no supervision at all, but my father always stressed the need for proper welding precautions.

I have been using automatic darkening helmets and Shields for the last 23-24 years. back then they cost about $600.00 for a good welding helmet, one like Miller, Hobart or Lincoln. I have never used a cheap welding helmet in my life, except to inspect some junk some dumb person bought, thinking he was getting a bargain. Some bargain, you save a few dollars and go blind 10 years sooner.....You do the math on that one.

Good equipment cost good money. I have seen the junk Harbor Freight sells, and it's just that junk. Now days there is no reason to purchase a junk welding helmet, the price of a brand name like Lincoln, Miller ..so on, has gotten to the level that it makes no sense to not buy their products. I guess there will always be a market for crap, there always seems to be a line at those places, but the wise welder or mechanic will fore-go the cheap stuff and spend there money more wisely. That way maybe they get to work a little longer in the trade they love, or get to see the sights in focus a little longer. If you think welding won't hurt your eyes your an idiot. All welding degrades your eyes, it's a fact. The key is to use the best equipment available and try to midi-gate the damage. I always weld what ever it is I'm working on, like it's the most precious single important thing I can do at that time, because I know each and every weld reduces my vision, and if I'm going to mess with something as dear as sight itself, I'm going to give that project my up-most attention. I never weld anything half-***-ed, just like I never take my sight for granted, and you should show the same respect for your vision. My Father had to give up welding many years ago, his eyes just got to bad. But while he was welding, he was one of the best, he kept us kids warm, feed and clothed with money he made from welding, and I'll never forget that. I know many older welders, and none of them can see very well, they don't complain, but each and every one will tell PO to value your sight while you still have it, it's sorely missed once it's gone.

What's all this mean to you and your original question?.? I'm not sure, but I hope you change your priorities around and stop looking for the cheapest equipment, and in stead, ask a few questions, and the first should be, How well will this welding helmet protect me and my eyes. Once you cross that bridge, the rest will just come along naturally.
Good Luck


I think more than one of us recommended he buy a good name brand helmet for professional use but for the same reason not everyone needs Snap-on wrenches not everyone needs a $400 Jackson welding helmet! Even for pro use the main reason I would recommend the pro outfits is because of the better built shell and headgear, eye protection is about the same with either one. All helmets have to meet government regulations and besides stopping UV is not rocket science anyway. There is no safety problem with these cheaper helmets (unless damaged) since the UV is blocked by the lens material and the electric darkening function has nothing to do with it, you are protected from the UV exposure whether the lens goes dark or not. How fast a lens reacts, or if it reacts at all, is a matter of comfort not safety so unless the lens or the shell is damaged and leaking these things will be just fine from a safety standpoint. As I said earlier a few years ago (I have no idea if this is still the case) the HF helmet that sold for $49 had the EXACT SAME "Chameleon" brand variable shade lens as the $200 Hobarts and Millers, the shells and headgear were cheaper made but the lens was THE SAME ONE! For weekend and hobby work it makes little sense to lay out $400 or so for a welding helmet when one for 50 bucks will work just as well. I have used these things myself since they first hit the market when I bought the first Jackson model sold and I have tried a great many others since then including some of the "cheapies", the HF helmets in particular and from a safety standpoint I would not be at all afraid to use one on a regular basis.
 
#11 ·
Ynot, of course I care about my eyes, thats why I am asking questions on this forum.
I to started welding at a young age (12) because my gramp was a farm equipment dealer and service. I started working for him as a kid and until I was 25. I took over the fabricating and repair, because I enjoyed it and was good at it. I learned how to weld cast iron and steel. I remember repairing a tractor/loader that had actually broke in half. As well as transmission housings on a 9N ford that had been forced together without the pilot shaft properly aligned by the owner. Grouser bar, bucket reinforcement/repair etc.
Anyway I eventually wound up in residentual remodeling. Today I only weld for my own repair and vehicle renovations. I have been wanting a dimming helmet for some time, but seeing as I just got laid off from my job, it will have to be on a budget, if at all.
Considering the response from all the others and 2 old threads concerning this very topic I found here, I feel very confident in their safety and durability. If the helmet lens was not shading properly or my eyes hurt while welding I would bring it back.
I def would not continue using it.
Chas
 
#12 ·
yknot said:
Good equipment cost good money. I have seen the junk Harbor Freight sells, and it's just that junk. Now days there is no reason to purchase a junk welding helmet, the price of a brand name like Lincoln, Miller ..so on, has gotten to the level that it makes no sense to not buy their products.
It would be useful if you'd point out exactly what you think is "junk" about the Harbor Freight helmets and what you think is better about the "brand name" helmets. Otherwise, it's just a rant and unsupported brand loyalty.

For example, the manual for the 46092 helmet linked above claims, "This product is in full conformity with related DIN, ISO, EN379 safety standards and ANSI Z87.1-1989 standard." The speed of dark to clear is selectable as either 0.25-0.35 second or 0.60-0.80 second. The darkness can be selected from DIN 9 to DIN 13. The battery is said to have a useful life of approximately 6 years.

In what ways do the "brand names" outperform this helmet or represent a better value in either hobbyist or professional use?
 
#13 ·
Oldred, schnitz,grouch, onemoretime
I think I will check out the HF helmet, they seem to have good feedback, even from those 2 older threads I found. I know longer weld professionally so I can't justify 200 on a Hobart, as much as I like their Patriot.
They just put in a new HF here in CT, and I did just get one of their flyers with 2 of their dimming helmets on sale! And it is my birthday today. Hmmm
now where did I put that flyer......!
thanks for all the replys! :welcome:
 
#14 ·
When get to look at those things check out the headgear carefully because a couple of extra dollars here can make a difference. The lowest priced one they have has a headgear that looks quite uncomfortable to me and it may not last a long time but for about $10 more they have one that looks to be a lot better built. Also the models with the #9 to #13 shade adjustment has a lens that looks suspiciously like the ones found on some "name brand" helmets so look at the lens itself and see if it has a brand name on it such as "Chameleon".
 
#15 ·
I think most of use who weld for a living think nothing of getting the best $$$ can buy. Nothing like having to make do in a production environment with a piece of crap head gear. So we get the best. When that helmut is on your head 8-10 hours a day you really appreciate a comfortable head gear.

Now at home for the guy that welds a couple times a month for 15 minutes. Well the less expensive helmuts are just fine. Probably won't even know there is a difference in head gear. The lens are similar, maybe don't have all the trick features but who cares. Don't need them at home. My old head shaker Jackson 25+ years old works just fine at home for TIG or Mig welding....no adjustments, no auto dark.....don't need it.

I have a top of the line autodark helmut at work with all the tricks and don't use any of them. I just want the thing to work all day every day and I don't want to be fiddling with the headgear adjustment.. Just like tools. Good tools at work, cheap stuff at home....most of the time.
 
#19 ·
There is no way the "Shading Mechanism" in the Harbor Freight welding helmet is the same Quality, Construction, Speed, Delay or any other comparison, as that found on my Miller or Jackson auto-dimming welding helmet. How do I know the harbor freight welding helmets are JUNK...I have two of them setting in my shop, one was recently purchased, about last spring (no, not my me, but a poor sucker that paid decent money for JUNK)

I think it outrageous that you would come on this forum and make the claims about the electronic dimming units that you have made. I can look right here and see they bear more major comparison. The quality units, like those found on Jackson, Miller and Lincoln helmets have large viewing lenses with adjustable lens shade and timing. Yes the harbor freight unit has adjustments,settings as well, but the units stop there in similarities. The units I'm talking about are: 1. 91214-5VGA and 2. 46092-7VGA . While yes they have gotten better over the years, and offer two other designs that may or may not be better then the ones I have, based on past experiences, I would not trust them or the welding eyes they are suppose to protect.
I only write to warn the un-experienced or un-informed, I don't care if you want to argue about the quality or not, it's your eyes and you can do with them as you see (for how long?) fit. I know first hand these helmets are JUNK, and no matter how you try to spin it, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****t.
I have surrounded myself with quality equipment and tools all my life, I don't expect other that have not to suddenly reverse there thinking. On the wrench subject, I don't care for Snap-on Tools or Mac Tools either, Craftsmen do me fine and always have. What I do like is this:
Screwdrivers; I like have always like Kline
Pliers; Kline or Channel lock
Sockets and wrenches;Craftsmen
Power Tools; Milwaukee
Battery Tools; Dewalt or Milwaukee
Welders;Miller or Lincoln (I prefer Lincoln)
Measurement;Sturrett
 
#20 ·
yknot said:
There is no way the "Shading Mechanism" in the Harbor Freight welding helmet is the same Quality, Construction, Speed, Delay or any other comparison, as that found on my Miller or Jackson auto-dimming welding helmet.
You have facts to support that assertion? I'm pretty sure everyone considering buying a helmet would like to see hard facts about the products.

yknot said:
How do I know the harbor freight welding helmets are JUNK...I have two of them setting in my shop, one was recently purchased, about last spring (no, not my me, but a poor sucker that paid decent money for JUNK)
There is a difference between objective facts and subjective opinion. Of course you're entitled to your opinion and do not have to justify it to anyone.

yknot said:
I think it outrageous that you would come on this forum and make the claims about the electronic dimming units that you have made.
I'm not sure whether that "you" refers to me, regarding the data I posted from the HF helmet manual, or to oldred, regarding his observation about the lenses. In either case, I see nothing "outrageous".

yknot said:
I can look right here and see they bear more major comparison. The quality units, like those found on Jackson, Miller and Lincoln helmets have large viewing lenses with adjustable lens shade and timing. Yes the harbor freight unit has adjustments,settings as well, but the units stop there in similarities. The units I'm talking about are: 1. 91214-5VGA and 2. 46092-7VGA . While yes they have gotten better over the years, and offer two other designs that may or may not be better then the ones I have, based on past experiences, I would not trust them or the welding eyes they are suppose to protect.
I'm sorry, but you're the only one who can see through your eyes. What did you discover while doing the comparison? What is the timing on the Miller and Lincoln units? What range of standardized darkening levels do they allow? What are the measurements? What is the expected battery life? How many solar cells do they have? What level of impact resistence do they provide?

This is the type of objective data that can help with making a purchasing decision. Fit and finish are more subjective, but can be important, too. Raw assertions that one product is "junk" or that another product is "quality" are not very useful to anyone except the person doing the asserting.
 
#21 ·
Ynot, There are a lot of different lens models out there so it is not at all odd that the ones you have are different than the pro models that you have but you are saying they are dangerous to use, what are you basing that on? Opinion? Do you have some data to back it up? Did you do testing? And yes the lens used in the Hobart helmet called "The Hood" from a few years back had the EXACT SAME "Chameleon" brand lens as the HF helmet that cost 1/4 as much! You keep ranting about these things being dangerous but you offer no explanation as to why you say this other than HF sells only junk. Are you are talking about me when you say you think it is outrageous that I come on this forum and make claims about these lens? Which claims do you take exception with? I explained that IMO the HF helmets are safe to use based on the fact blocking UV is quite simple, that the lens material itself is the UV shield and safety is not reliant upon the quality of the electrics which appear to work just fine anyway. These things have to meet the same government safety regulations as the more expensive helmets and this quite apparently is the case since there does not seem to have been any issues with safety recalls. These helmets have been around a long time now and there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of them in use but no one seems to be having problems with them, if you know of a case of someone being harmed maybe you could share that with us? When these things first hit the field years ago and they were new technology to us there was a lot of concern about safety because we simply did not know anything about them. To quell the fears Jackson sales reps came out to the job and explained to us how these things work and it was pointed out that the UV protection was the lens material, not the electrics, and if there were any safety problems the product liability and workmans comp lawyers would put them out of business PDQ! The same would hold true for Harbor Freight, Northern tool, Summitt and any number of others who sell these import helmets. OK I explained why I think they are safe now maybe you can enlighten us as to why, in your opinion, they are not.


I don't know if you guys have heard any of the urban legends about the poor worker who went blind from using one of these things but most are a variation of this one.

A welder for GM, Ford, Toyota (take your pick but it is usually an auto plant) was issued an auto dark helmet but complained it was not darkening fast enough. He of course was told to use it or go home so he continued to weld until his eyes hurt so bad he had to go to his doctor but of course by then it was too late and he was going blind from excess UV exposure. :rolleyes: There are several variations of that BS story but they are just that, BS, because if something like that was occurring OSHA would be on the manufacturers like ugly on an ape! The fact is, once again, the electrics do not determine the safety of the lens and lens failure would not cause burned eyes. I suppose if someone continued to weld with a failed lens they could harm themselves from the excessively bright light but who in their right mind would do such a thing?
 
#22 ·
I think this article sums it up nicely

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/jan2002/collision.htm

To quote what I thought was the most important part of the article:

Question:
"Auto-darkening helmets don't darken until the welding arc is struck - will this “split second” response time damage my eyes?"

Answer:
"No. Again, all helmets that comply with the current ANSI Z87.1 standard (when in the proper down position) always protect operators from the harmful UV and IR emissions from the arc. This protection occurs whether the lens is darkened or not. However, the faster the helmet darkens, the more likely it is to prevent discomfort from the high-intensity visible light. Less than a millisecond in response time is not perceivable by the human eye and will provide the most comfort. Look for a helmet that has a response darkening time of a millisecond or less. "

So I guess to sum it up, yeah, a more expensive helmet could possibly be more comfortable, because it might darken faster (I have no data to say this is true or false, so I won't), but regardless of the helmet, as long as it's ANSI Z87.1 rated, it's all good.
 
#23 ·
GimpCow said:
So I guess to sum it up, yeah, a more expensive helmet could possibly be more comfortable, because it might darken faster (I have no data to say this is true or false, so I won't), but regardless of the helmet, as long as it's ANSI Z87.1 rated, it's all good.
Thanks for that link; it's interesting reading. It made me go looking for the ANSI Z87.1 specifications, but unfortunately you have to pay to get the whole spec.

Since the manual for the HF helmet specifies ANSI Z87.1-1989, I went searching for that specific standard mentioned online. Occupational Vision Manual: Part III: Ocular Protection by Gregory L. Stephens, O.D., Ph.D. has a table ("Table 1": "Transmittance Properties of Welding Filters") of shade numbers and UV transmittance. (I don't understand what the numbers mean, but at least there are standards that somebody might understand).

Produced by both artificial sources and the sun, UV radiation is commonly encountered in industrial situations. Probably the most common industrial source is an electric welding arc, which emits large amounts of UV-C, UV-B, UV-A, visible light, and IR. Both the eyes and the skin must be protected from this radiation, as well as from sparks and molten droplets of metal produced during arc welding. The most common eye and face protector is a welding helmet. The helmet contains a multilayered faceplate (filter plate) that allows the worker to view the work. The faceplate must meet the specific impact resistance and radiation absorption requirements described in the ANSI Z87.1-1989 standard.
Bold added.

It looks like the Automotive Service Association article you linked and the American Optometric Association article above agree that ANSI Z87.1 specifies standards for blocking UV light while welding.

It would be nice to know
(a) if some brands just meet the standards while others exceed them (and which brands),
(b) how well the standards actually protect the eyes,
(c) do later revisions of ANSI Z87.1 change the UV blocking required, and
(d) do the standards consider the amount of time spent welding?
 
#24 ·
Maybe a bit off topic but years ago while attending an EASCO welding seminar I had the honor of talking to an old gentleman that started welding at a WV coal mine back in 1910! No that is not a typo this was back in the early 70,s and he had long since retired and was just traveling with one of the EASCO reps to talk about his experiences, his was an interesting story to say the least. Arc welding at that time meant using an open coil transformer :pain: and the welding "rods" were just bare wire snipped to length from a roll and straightened by hand. Safety gear was almost non-existent but they had an attitude about safety that we would find hard to understand anyway, for instance it was considered "unmanly" to wear gloves! The part that amazed me the most was the welding "helmets" they had, these consisted of hard leather with a piece of clear glass sewn into a pocket on the front. The glass was then briefly held over a torch flame (yep they had Oxy/Acetylene torches :) ) until it was blackened with smoke! Need it a little darker, add a little more smoke! This old man said he welded with that kind of equipment for nearly 15 years because even though real welding gear was available it was nearly impossible to obtain back in the hills of WV in those days and on a miners pay he could not have afforded it anyway. I am in no way saying a piece of glass coated with soot is safe to weld with but the fact this old fellow did that for over 15 years without going blind, and continued to weld for many more years using better equipment, demonstrates that stopping welding rays is not exactly a real difficult thing to do. The modern auto dark helmets have no problem stopping harmful rays using simple and inexpensive materials in the lens to absorb them so that has never been an issue. As far as the difference in quality of a cheap helmet vs a "good" helmet the cheapo MIGHT be more likely to fail and let you down on a job but that would simply mean you would be without a helmet to work with not that you would likely harm yourself. The "good" helmets have a few more bells and whistles such as some of them have settings to allow you to use them as a torch lens and/or have a setting for "grinding mode" while the cheaper ones usually have only a shade adjustment, if that as some of them have a fixed setting.
 
#25 ·
Hell, no I didn't do any TESTING.....I simply used the thing and then threw it in the corner where it probably still lies. I had a kid up the way come to me and ask if this helmet is any good, he bought it from Harbor freight, the first one listed in my other post. I till that time had not really looked at HF, just knew them for the cheap Chinese stuff they sell. This Helmet made me dizzy in just a few minuets, the unit had shade level and timing adjustment but seemed to be so slow I was getting flashed every time I struck an ark. Besides that, the general construction was cheap, and the lens area was the very small 2" x 4" size. Did I get out any special testing equipment and measure the timing cycles, NO would you have??? I doubt it..
There is much more to a good quality welding helmet then just the shading mechanism, there should be a good balance when it's on your head and when it's in the down position. The head gear should be strong and wide at the ban, plus it should have an adjuster at the back and a padded area for your brow. The attachment points on the side of the helmet, where the head gear attaches, should be the type that holds it's adjustment or position, without always needing adjustment. The helmet should flip down the same every-time you nod your head forward. These are all tangible items that make welding both safe and enjoyable, these are also items they leave off HF and similar welding helmets.

The other helmet I mentioned, was purchased by a family member, Not a close relative, but family. He showed up at my shop with this newer helmet. I did go over it, but didn't like it, it was basically a re-badged older style welding helmet, with new colorful graphics. I told him to take it back or sell it off, and gave him one of my older Jackson auto darkening welding helmets.

As I stated before i am not going to continue with this post, It's your head, eyes and life, do as you please. If HF is your ideal of a great helmet, then I'm happy for you.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Y you are completely missing the point. I think it has been said from the start that the better helmets have a much better shell and headgear, no one ever disputed that but they cost a heck of a lot more. What we have been saying is that for normal hobby use or even light work duty those bells and whistles are simply not important to a lot of people so these things are just fine and are an economical alternative to the higher priced outfits. You keep saying you would not trust your eyes to one of these helmets and seem to want to tell everyone else they are being irresponsible for even recommending them when there is simply no reason to be afraid of them. I have offered several explanations as to why I feel they are safe to use but you say nothing except they are junk and not to be trusted without explaining why except for poor head gear and shell design which no one disputes. Once again There simply is no reason to avoid these "econo" helmets" based on risk to your eyes and if someone wants to forgo the frills of a pro model to save some money there is no reason not to. It would make no more sense to spend the money on something like a Jackson "Next Gen" for occasional use than it would to buy Snap-On tools for weekend hobby work. If you want them (or that helmet) and can afford them for hobby use then fine go for it but for most folks it just don't make sense.
 
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