Automotive water base paint questions
I would be interesting in hearing from others who have tried or are shooting with water base paint and using a turbine system for shooting the paint.
Is it a lot harder to shoot?
Is orange peel a bigger problem or a smaller problem.
I was thinking of trying it and using a 3 stage turbine system to cut down on the over spray and the amount of paint used.
Any pro's and con's or any comments would be a great help.
I know there are shops using this method and now that PPG and others are offering water base paint I thought it just might be time to try and it and experiment a little with the gun and settings.
I also like the idea of the whole turbine system being portable and able to simply take it on the road if need be to make a small repair.
Thanks for your help. Jimbo
I know of no shop, ever, using a turbine set up.
If you want to know about turbines for home use contact Len at autobodystore.com I believe he has sold quite a few.
I have a Fuji Mini-Mite that I use with water based
paints. I like it; it has much less bounce-back that
results in less overspray and less paint waste.
I would strongly recommend you get a 3-stage though.
The smaller ones don't have enough pressure to do
So far I've sprayed AutoAir WB and a few industrial
and marine WB clearcoats with the Fuji, and it gave
great results. The most critical thing to watch out for
is the paint reduction. The turbines spray a fine mist
at low pressure and if the paint consistency is correct
it'll flow out like glass with no orange peel.
Another thing is the hotter air temperature that they
put out. You can temper that by coiling the air hose
in a bucket of water, if necessary.
Don't know about turbine setup. To me, by the time you have all supplies (sealer, base coat, clear, reducer, harder) you are going to have a lot of money invested. Especially with PPG. I wouldn't mess with the proven methods. But that is just my $.02.
As far as water born paint.... it is different but not harder. The goal of your base coat is just to add color. It will dry flat. Make sure you let it completely dry, but pay attention to your clear time. Orange peal will be less of a problem in the base coat. It drys very flat and flows out well. Metallics do well with less tiger striping. I use a kind of fog coat for the base to even out metallic.
Clear is the same.
Hope that helps.
Spraying with wate base.
Today I had to go a a local body shop to get an estimate for an insurance company and I started talking with a guy and I asked him if they use water base paint and he told me know not at this shop.
He told me about another shop close by who does use water base paint because their clientele is all the really high end cars like Ferrari, BMW, and man others and he said all of those manufacturers have used water base paint for years.
He also told me that is part of the reason their metallic paint jobs on those cars are superior to anything we paint using solvent based paint.
He said water base paint flows the metallic's much better then solvent based paint and he told me if you believe me just try for yourself.
He told me to use the standard 2k primer and solvent based clear but that the water base paint works excellent and is much more forgiving in terms of you do not have to complete the entire painting job in one day.
He told me that even applying the clear does not have to be done within a certain numbers of hours or even days.
He also explained that water base takes longer to dry which is the reason that it should be done in a booth or at least have the correct heat lamps and a slower reducer to help it dry faster. The slower reducer would be needed here in Florida.
I spend one hour talking and he also told me Canada has been water base for some time. The Mannheim Auction people use only water base on every car they spray.
He did not know a great deal about the Turbine HVLP Systems but I told him I liked the fact that for someone spaying in their home garage you had a lot less over spray.
I am trying to learn as much about the product as I can and then I will be purchasing an old hood from a junk yard to experiment on first.
Don't spend money on an old hood, just go to a body shop and ask them for one! Any big bodyshop has a LOT of scrap metal. We have a metal bin at work that is about 15x25x5 feet in size. I just called the company to come and empty it yesterday. It is FULL of late model fenders, hoods, doors, quarters and more. These panels are perfect to practice painting on because they have nice OEM paint on them, just scuff and paint. Get fenders, they are MUCH easier to handle. Then after you do a few spray a hood. But most every body shop is going to have a collection of sheetemetal that is being thrown out that they are more than happy to give away being they are throwing it away.
I don't understand why he said slower reducer makes something flash faster, that makes no sense. But he is very right that the water borne paint needs to be COMPLETELY flashed off of water before clear is applied. And believe it or not heat isn't always the answer, it's air movement. Air "tumbling" over the surface of the paint pulls the water out of it. So just simply blowing air at it may not do it. The air being blown at it creates a little layer of dead air. Sort of like how you can drive down the road with a spider on your hood. Have you ever had that happen where some bug is sitting on your hood or windshield and you can't believe he is still hanging on as you drive down the road. He is able to do this because of the layer of dead air that sits right on the surface. Just simply blowing air on the paint does the same thing. You need this device to make the air tumble over the surface.
Here's one for $35 Pneumatic AIR DRYER BLOWER GUN Waterborne Auto Car Paint Drying HVLP Spray Gun on eBay!
I have a number of friends with body shops and that is a great idea and I am sure they have something laying around.
I will also ask him again about the slow reducer and just how it works.
This will be m first try using 3 state Turbine System with water base paint but so far the guys I have talked with swear it works well and they keep telling me the reasons why PPG and many others are gearing up is because they know at some point this will be law. Might not for a few more years but Europe and Canada and companies like Caterpillar have been using water base for a while now.
I also like the idea that when you are spraying water base you do not have to stay in the garage until 3 AM in the morning trying to finish. My friend told me you can stop whenever you want and the solvent based clear does not have to be sprayed within any certain period of time after the base coat is done which also makes it easier for someone working along in their home garage.
I am going to sand the entire truck since it does not need any bodywork and then spray a sealer first over the entire truck.
Thanks for your great tip. Jimbo
I'm thinking the person was referring to low temp reducer flashing faster than slow reducer. The parts store guy with the mixing bank I used to deal with couldn't comprehend the concept. Thank goodness I found a paint supplier who sells just that...automotive paint and sundries.
You are right that is just what he was talking about.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I have never used this waterborne paint before but for some crazy reason I feel like trying it and I have truck sitting here waiting to be painted.
I do think I might wait for a month or so until the humidity here in Florida drops a little from where it is this time of year.
I am also purchasing a 3 stage HVLP Turbine System which I will use to spray with.
Wish me luck. Jimbo
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